Cheat and be proud?

[rancid]

I know, I know we've probably done it to death, but there are a few new people in and around....

Having played quite a few sports, and considered myself someone who is keen to glimpse the darkside, why oh why do I feel no remorse indulging in the odd cheat in all these other sports, yet wouldn't even contemplate a little bit of playing on in paintball?

Consider cricket (proper version of baseball).

You're batting. The bowler trundels up sends a swift one down, you nick it and the keeper catches it.... the umpire misses it. Not out!

What do you do? 99.9% of county-up players prepare to face the next ball. At international level this is seen by millions of people around the world, plus the opposition, governing bodies etc. and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the state of the sport, or the guy's reputation.

So why is paintball different? If I get a nick on my hopper, no one's seen it... what the f, play on.

Yes/no?

 

[TJ Lambini]

my 2c

Maybe it's partly a hangover of tha military days...tha whole honor code thing the special forces and marines and that supposedly have.

Tha thing that astounded me recently was during tha RL thread where basically what was being said was that everyone apart from the Russkies cheats like there's no tomorrow, NOT ONE Pro or top Am player posted anything defending themselves/their team...disgraceful.

I remember when there was more than one clean team on tha circuit...

 

[Urban]

To use the cricket analogy;

Yes, millions of people ( or maybe 30-odd ) would see it, millions of people (Is cricket watched by that many??) would rant about it the next day, the umpire would be slagged off by whichever country/county lost lost but the player himself would generally be left alone. Why?

Because the generally accepted rule on the cricket pitch (waste of a good carpark if you ask me) is that the Umpires word is final. Very few people argue with Umpires. Tell me the same applies to Paintball Marshalls? Tell me Paintball Marshalls are regarding in anyway as fair and professional as cricket umpires? Rhetorical.

Now, the cricket player doesn't have to slyly wipe cricket ball marks off his bat. Infact, the player doesn't have to do anything other than look surprised if the umpire calls him out. We have had plenty big rows in cricket regarding players 'scoring' the ball to aid spin however. Players will attempt to cheat in all sports.

Cheating, as has been discussed on various threads in here, not least the Rl Gun incident thread, has been defined as "with intent". A full on goggle shot can't be hidden, wiped off, or ignored (I hope!). Some times, and I think almost everyone has had this happen, you can get the hopper plastered at the tip but not notice, you can get hit on the pack and not notice, you can even get a head skimmer and not know whether or not it has burst.

The Marshalls should be the ones to spot all the hits. I always thought that was why they are there. Now while I am never going to wipe but if I'm hit on the pack, who's to say whether I noticed it or not? The same as the cricket player, I may be the sort to feign surprise when the Marshall calls me out.

I'd put money on the fact that if the umpires in cricket were as bad as some of the marshalls in paintball, and bearing in mind the first major tourniment I will ever play is Campaing Cup this year so I have yet to see 'professional' marshalls, people would try and get away with a lot more in cricket than they do.

Just my two penneth.

Urban
7 of 10

 

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by rancid

So why is paintball different? If I get a nick on my hopper, no one's seen it... what the f, play on.

Yes/no?

Interesting perspective Rancid.

Assuming you are not playing devils advocate and believe the above may I suggest a latin motto for you taken from the writings of the Roman Historian Cicero: "Silent enim leges inter arma" (Laws are inoperative in War)*

Personally I'd say no because whilst cheating may be endemic in many other sports too it doesn't make it okay. Cliche or not "Two Wrongs don't make a right" is a valid statement

A worthy Topic of further debate though

* and yes I know am a deeply sad individual for being able to quote ancient historians in Latin. Sadder still for doing so

 

[TJ Lambini]

So

the pball community is right for castigating cheats?

But then as tha RL thread illustarted, no-one except the Russkies and me play clean, so you're all hypocrites anyway!

 

[Hotpoint]

So

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
the pball community is right for castigating cheats?

But then as tha RL thread illustarted, no-one except the Russkies and me play clean, so you're all hypocrites anyway!

Well I've personally never wiped and the only time I've knowingly played on was when a round went straight down my sleeve and I didn't know if it had broken or not... as it turned out, when I took my playing top off after the game, it hadn't!

And whilst RL may be cleaner than most I've personally watched them violate the rules, not by wiping but with an eliminated player dropping extra pots of balls to another of his team whilst walking off the field. It ain't as bad as wiping but it's still not allowed

Many people break the rules without realising it because a high percentage of players don't really know them.

In any case even if the anti-cheats amongst us are hypocrites surely the message is more important than the individual?

 

[rancid]

Originally posted by Urban
To use the cricket analogy;

Yes, millions of people ( or maybe 30-odd ) would see it, millions of people (Is cricket watched by that many??) would rant about it the next day, the umpire would be slagged off by whichever country/county lost lost but the player himself would generally be left alone. Why? Because the generally accepted rule on the cricket pitch (waste of a good carpark if you ask me) is that the Umpires word is final. Very few people argue with Umpires. Tell me the same applies to Paintball Marshalls? Tell me Paintball Marshalls are regarding in anyway as fair and professional as cricket umpires? Rhetorical

I guess if India play Pakistan a few mill may watch? I don't think they do get slagged off, I think it happens every game, every day.
I agree the umpire's word etc., but I was talking about the individual's conscience and the general public and other player's perceptions... ie if they were in the same situ they'd do the same, therefore what's the problem?


[/i]
Players will attempt to cheat in all sports.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! So why do we all gasp when it happens in paintball?


[/i]
The Marshalls should be the ones to spot all the hits. I always thought that was why they are there. Now while I am never going to wipe but if I'm hit on the pack, who's to say whether I noticed it or not? The same as the cricket player, I may be the sort to feign surprise when the Marshall calls me out.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That's the point. But what would you/anyone be labelled?


Jon, nah I'm not playing devil's A. The point I was going to make a few posts in is... until we accept cheating as part and parcel how can we possibly hope to control it? ie a shift of emphasis from the player to the marshal. As Urban says quality of reffing?

 

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by rancid

Jon, nah I'm not playing devil's A. The point I was going to make a few posts in is... until we accept cheating as part and parcel how can we possibly hope to control it? ie a shift of emphasis from the player to the marshal. As Urban says quality of reffing?

Now this is a prime example of how you're a realistic/pessimistic cynic and I'm the self-confessed Idealist

You may be right but to paraphase Lincoln surely we should look to the better-angels of ourselves and strive to a higher plain

Better to shoot high and miss surely?

 

[TJ Lambini]

Shoot high and miss, or shoot a bit lower and hit...I thought that if you brought your gun to tha party, tha idea was to shoot someone with it.

And if tha message is delivered by hypocrites who don't believe it, how's it gonna convince everyone?

 

[Hotpoint]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Shoot high and miss, or shoot a bit lower and hit...I thought that if you brought your gun to tha party, tha idea was to shoot someone with it.

And if tha message is delivered by hypocrites who don't believe it, how's it gonna convince everyone?

I still believe we should strive for the ideal of everyone playing clean even if we won't, or can't, ever achieve it. Once we go down the road of accepting that people will break the rules and try to mitigate against it then players who are ethically unable to do likewise will find increasingly that no good deed goes unpunished

There really are clean players out there they're just sidelined because whilst they may be exceptionally good at the sport they are always eclipsed by cheaters claiming all the Glory

As for hypocrites... I once again say that the message is greater than the man who delivers it