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[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Missy Q
Loco, you presume that the NPPL have been invited to play, which is not the case.

The limited info currently available suggests the NPPL would have every right to petition for entry into a coming American Federation of the UPBF. And if the coming process of getting this launched is sufficiently transparent it should be clear who is doing what and why. No need to play the premature martyr, Missy.

Lane--perhaps President Keely would like to comment?

Duffy--If this was poker I'd call the UPBF a substantial pre-flop raise.

 

[Robbo]

It may well be worthy of note that the main determinants in the way things unravel, leastwise in this situation are gonna be income streams open to the NPPL and the delicate, sometimes conflicting balance between the NPPL (Chuck) and PP (Ged and the gang).

The NPPL circuit is based upon an extremely professional promotional ethos and this has served them well in the past in both attracting and maintaining a healthy tournament population.
This degree of promotion can only be upheld if the same (and hopefully more) income streams are maintained as 2005 in terms of a comprehensive sponsor portfolio.
We all know they won’t be, they are under threat because of the contraction in the US market and other forces.

One of the major differences between the PSP and the NPPL was on the surface a mere detail in that the NPPL run their series to make money and the PSP never did.
The electronic marker market has become much more competitive in the past few years as we all know and as such, in a contracted marketplace as it is now, those financial downturns (for everybody, not just WDP) then have knock-on effects as to where money is looked for.

I don’t need to spell out how the emphasis (for PP) has now shifted toward developing the NPPL as an income stream; but on the other hand the PSP chug along promoting their tourneys and have no agenda for making money, they don’t have to, and have excelled in not doing so in past years which should ring the alarm bells not in the PSP corner but ironically in the NPPL’s.
Although previously perceived as a mere detail, I think the NPPL overlooked the true relevance of the PSP not having to make money in promoting their circuit because this puts them in an awfully strong position come negotiation time.
Let me explain.
When you sit down at a table to negotiate, you have cards that work for you and against you.
The fear of losing money is a strong influence, it’s one that ultimately dictates if you throw in yer hand, whether you compromise or endeavor to dominate proceedings.
If you have no fear of losing money then any pressure being bought to bear by your opponents just doesn’t work.
The PSP were guys were not going to be bullied into any sort of conditional integration where almost total control was handed over the NPPL especially with Chuck sitting at the head of the NPPL albeit in a constitutional position only.
When the talks broke down, the PSP just returned to the business of promoting tourneys but this time with a new more determined, more professorial intent as is evidenced by recent events.

The companies who back the PSP have never looked toward their circuit to make money, it doesn’t have to for them, they just want an alternative to the NPPL and a showcase for their teams and products.

What’s fcuked the PSP in the past is the inability to put on an event anywhere near the quality of the NPPL’s and maybe this was because they just had too many cooks spoiling the promotional broth.
Whatever the reason, they have seemingly put that crap behind them and put Lane Wright in charge of proceedings and one of the first things Lane asked for, in fact demanded, was total control and only to reference the other members of the PSP when necessary.

Obviously he is answerable to them but Lane is in control now and as such, I think the PSP can now free themselves from the previous lacklustre, amateurish promotions they sometimes put on.
This obviously did not apply to all their tourneys as the WC was undoubtedly a great promotional success tho not a financial one.

Chuck’s almost slavish adherence to 7 man and other more problematic issues compromises a single approach to integrating with the PSP and it came as no surprise to some that the Holy Grail of Paintball, that of integration, failed to materialize because of these problems.

For the first time ever, 7-man looks vulnerable; it sits there almost awkwardly and adopting a somewhat ungainly stance as Paintball’s evolution takes yet another turn.
It is fast becoming ‘yesterday’s game’ and ironically the season hasn’t even started yet.
Money and politics will always influence proceedings and directions and none more so that it has in this past month or so.
The breakdown of talks between the Millennium and the NPPL a year or so ago sewed the seeds of one field, the cross-pollination was complete when once again the NPPL failed in talks to integrate with the PSP and both the PSP and Millennium found they had similar ideas and perceived enemies.

The hybrid crop is now XBall 5 man, it will I believe become the industry standard and as such, those who have aligned themselves with this product whether by default or design, will be in the surviving group.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

My wife is leaving me

Typical - using your troubles with your sister as an excuse for not posting

Nick

 

[PSPLane]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Typical - using your troubles with your sister as an excuse for not posting

Nick

That's too good to even try a comeback.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Baca Loco


Duffy--If this was poker I'd call the UPBF a substantial pre-flop raise.

What do you mean, 'if'?

And I agree totally - all I was suggesting is that it might be on a 3,7 rather than a pair of kings.

I am looking forward to seeing the website and the nature of the commmittees. I notice there is a media one...Cow, you may have to nominate me so I can get on the inside.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
Typical - using your troubles with your sister as an excuse for not posting

Nick

Thankyou for starting my day with a giggle Nick - I bet I'm the only person to ever say that to you, barring your wife.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Robbo



For the first time ever, 7-man looks vulnerable; it sits there almost awkwardly and adopting a somewhat ungainly stance as Paintball’s evolution takes yet another turn.

You know, I remain unconvinced that the majority of players want XBall rather than 7-Man. I wonder what the result would be if the NPPL polled their player base and asked which format they wanted to play. I'll try a poll in MLT and see what we get...

And something else occurred to me with the UPBF - how are they going to set rules and regulations across the board with 15BPS capped ramping as one of their key principles, as I believe that would be illegal in some member countries?

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by duffistuta
...something else occurred to me with the UPBF - how are they going to set rules and regulations across the board with 15BPS capped ramping as one of their key principles, as I believe that would be illegal in some member countries?

Good question but it is obvious there will have to be room for local variation and that would not be only about ROF ramping. That might also involve mininium ages, maximum velocities, gun ownership, promoter liabilities, insurance requirements, etc.

The main thing is that much more leverage could be brought to bear vis-à-vis bureaucracies in the different countries. If a bigger lobby could be assembled and case precedence made about PSP rules being safer than the so-call "true semi" euphemism (like Russell Smith et al have done in the UK) then maybe reason could prevail more widely.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by duffistuta
You know, I remain unconvinced that the majority of players want XBall rather than 7-Man. I wonder what the result would be if the NPPL polled their player base and asked which format they wanted to play. I'll try a poll in MLT and see what we get...

I suppose I think this for a couple of reasons, first being, I am around a lot of players who play the NPPL and also the Millennium, what you may perceive as an apparent indifference to the XBall format, or even a preference to 7 man, I see it different.
The two forces are these, all players aspire to emulate the top guys, in this case the pros.
And as such, the pros, or more specifically now the NXL teams, they will be playing XBall in the NXL.
As I hope will be the Champions League and Div one teams in the Millennium.
The NXL is now indisputably THE pro league with its expanded intake.
Even before the NXL took on the likes of Dynasty and XSV the NXL had become an inspirational focus for thousands of tourney ballers, no matter what league they played in and created in those ballers a desire to play the most exciting format.
This is a role model attraction going on here independent of the nature of the game itself.
Just look at the way the PSP teams embraced the idea of transferring to XBall if you need any sort of proof Steve.

Secondly, to play a game that is inherently more exciting to play than the present 7 man is also a good reason because without doubt XBall is the future Duff, I have seen the crowd (and player) choose many times over.
And what I mean by that is when I have been to tourneys where there is 7 man and XBall, 95% of the crowd went to watch XBall.

On that basis alone players would want to play in a spectacle of paintball rather than the paintball alternative of watching paint dry (7man).
Top players will always choose to play a game that emphasizes skills, athleticism and endurance, 7 man does not fulfill these criteria in the same way.
I have seen many NPPL semis and finals and they bore me ****less, they really do and on the back of that I have had god knows how many talks with the powers that be on the NPPL but….well you know how that one goes I am sure.
I think some people within the NPPL wanted to embrace the XBall format and someone else didn’t.
As I mentioned many times before, this is not a time to allow conservatives a say here; radical and revolutionary thinking was required in radical and revolutionary times.
The XBall format is more attractive on so many levels Duff, to ignore that is to kick Darwin in the nuts.

Originally posted by duffistuta
And something else occurred to me with the UPBF - how are they going to set rules and regulations across the board with 15BPS capped ramping as one of their key principles, as I believe that would be illegal in some member countries?

I don’t see it as a problem for the overall federation more like a problem for those nations that cannot adopt a common policy, there will always be anomalies in such federations in the start-up phase and just because there are some it shouldn’t become obstructive to the main dynamic.

 

[duffistuta]

Originally posted by Robbo
1. I suppose I think this for a couple of reasons, first being, I am around a lot of players who play the NPPL and also the Millennium, what you may perceive as an apparent indifference to the XBall format, or even a preference to 7 man, I see it different.
The two forces are these, all players aspire to emulate the top guys, in this case the pros.
And as such, the pros, or more specifically now the NXL teams, they will be playing XBall in the NXL.

2. The NXL is now indisputably THE pro league with its expanded intake.


3. Just look at the way the PSP teams embraced the idea of transferring to XBall if you need any sort of proof Steve.

4. Secondly, to play a game that is inherently more exciting to play than the present 7 man is also a good reason because without doubt XBall is the future Duff, I have seen the crowd (and player) choose many times over.


5.And what I mean by that is when I have been to tourneys where there is 7 man and XBall, 95% of the crowd went to watch XBall.

6. Top players will always choose to play a game that emphasizes skills, athleticism and endurance, 7 man does not fulfill these criteria in the same way.

1. It's interesting you say that, cos when we interview Pros in PGi it seems to be a roughly 50/50 split when we ask their favourite format.

2. Again, I am unsure of that - Legacy, Miami Effect, NYX? Are they worthy of a place in the NPPL 18? Now it looks like Strange's squad is likely to be split between Strange and Doc's, would both those squads make the cut? And what if the Russians and Trauma, for argument's sake, buy a slot in The 18? Who has the best league then?

3. But that wasn't a choice between 7-Man and XBall was it? Also, there was a degree of emperor's new clothes there, and as the Euros found out wanting to play XBall does not equate to affording to play XBall.

4. Again, emperor's new clothes? If you've been watching and playing 7-Man for years and someone says 'Watch/try this new format', most people will.

5. See above.

6. I think that is true to a degree, but field design can mitigate that. One could also argue that XBall creates robots and that true ballers want the ability to freestyle and to use their brains and that 7-Man facilitates that to a greater degree.

I am not pro one format or ther other, or one league or the other, my concern is what is best for Paintball as a whole, because what is best for Paintball as a whole is what is best for PGi. Reunification would have suited me perfectly, but given that's not happening next year any attempt at strong-arming the NPPL out of existence is a very bad thing for Paintball in my opinion.

Whether the UPBF is a tool in that strongarming or not remains to be seen and as I've said, I await the website and further annoucements with interest, and I'll be interested to see what the NPPL's next move is.