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Robbo

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Look at the way the poll is unfolding........it says it all for me.

And just for the record, I have always been a strong advocate for XBall and for what PP have done, this has never waivered.
If PP was in complete charge of the NPPL, then I don't think we would be where we are now.
I will say no more.
 
D

duffistuta

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Originally posted by Robbo
Look at the way the poll is unfolding........it says it all for me.

And just for the record, I have always been a strong advocate for XBall and for what PP have done, this has never waivered.
If PP was in complete charge of the NPPL, then I don't think we would be where we are now.
I will say no more.
12 votes! Christ, that's nearly as bad as Ben's Indian friend...in fact it might be Ben's Indian friend getting his mates to vote.

:p

It's all Euros who want to try summat new - let's see what the Yanks say when they wake up.
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by duffistuta
12 votes! Christ, that's nearly as bad as Ben's Indian friend...in fact it might be Ben's Indian friend getting his mates to vote.

:p

It's all Euros who want to try summat new - let's see what the Yanks say when they wake up.
It's a factor of 12 times better thankyou :)


You don't have to wait for the Yanks to wake up Duff, just look at the PSP's adoption of XBall throughout out their divisional play, they moved over purely due to the pressure from within to play XBall or one of its variants.
 

Robbo

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I got the answer !!!!

I think the 'PP' in NPPL should stand for Pure Promotions :)

I wonder how many people out there understand the true significance of that :)

Luckily, the ones I want to understand most definitely will.......
 
D

duffistuta

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Originally posted by Robbo
It's a factor of 12 times better thankyou :)


You don't have to wait for the Yanks to wake up Duff, just look at the PSP's adoption of XBall throughout out their divisional play, they moved over purely due to the pressure from within to play XBall or one of its variants.
But as I said above, 7-Man was not an option in PSP...you can't say they chose X over 7 cos they didn't.
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by duffistuta
But as I said above, 7-Man was not an option in PSP...you can't say they chose X over 7 cos they didn't.
It's the attraction of XBall that is the real point here and not so much the format played previously.

!0 man is really no different to 7 man except numerically, the style of play is the same.
XBall is another animal altogether and in this case I think we can categorise 10 man and 7 man similarly and thus predict outcomes along simliar lines.
 
D

duffistuta

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Originally posted by Robbo
It's the attraction of XBall that is the real point here and not so much the format played previously.

!0 man is really no different to 7 man except numerically, the style of play is the same.
XBall is another animal altogether and in this case I think we can categorise 10 man and 7 man similarly and thus predict outcomes along simliar lines.
I disagree because, as you stated above, lower ranked teams want to play what the Pros play, and the Pros were playing XBall and/or 7-Man, so by your own admission the other teams would have opted for one of those formats and not 10-Man.

Anyway, we can go back and forth like this all day and everyone will get really bored. Besides, you need to get in the car and come up for the PGi Towers Xmas party, which starts in 1 1/2 hours. I'd make sure you arrive promptly because Piper is coming, so if you want any of the buffet you better get a shift on.

Sadly, the dwarf tossing has been cancelled as 26 couldn't get a flight over...
 

Nick Brockdorff

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You know, I remain unconvinced that the majority of players want XBall rather than 7-Man. I wonder what the result would be if the NPPL polled their player base and asked which format they wanted to play. I'll try a poll in MLT and see what we get...
I honestly think a poll will be quite misleading.

Most who have played X-ball prefer it - this I know for a fact - I have yet to talk to a player who have tried both, and hear him say he prefers 7-man from a player pespective.

SOME may SAY different when asked to go public - but you know as well as I, that there are a whole lot of political considerations involved with that :)

Some have not tried the format will vote for it, because they like the idea of trying something new.

But a lot who haven't tried playing X, will vote against it... there is comfort in what you know - and many shy away from new things, simply because they are new! :)

As such - a poll in here is not really that valid - if you want a valid result, limit your question to players that have played both formats.

Anyway - it actually shouldn't really matter what the players want - to be honest - it should matter what is best for the development and growth of paintball.... and if that happens to be what the players want also - COOL - if not... they'll learn to adapt.

Nick
 

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I don't trust players to do what is best for their own good. They're way too concerned with their own short-term interest.

But, I also don't trust the industry to do what is best for their own good - they're way too concerned with their own short-term inerest.

I like the UPBF idea because it indicates that some key people are behind doing what's right for the long-term interest of paintball.

But that is going to take involvement from the players, and involvement from the industry, and involvement with long-term thinking. Fortunately, short-term thinkers tend not to get involved in things like this, so I believe there is real potential to get somewhere.

Format is not important, in the long term. Format can be changed in a day, if people concerned about it sit down and decide to do it. Paintball needs to establish itself as a market worth investment; it's the market that determines the worth of that investment, not the format, because the market can't be changed in a short period of time, but the format can.


I will say that 7-man will never be successful as a long-term format. Every team sport is centered around a contest, usually lasting about an hour of play time. While 3-man, 5-man, 7-man, etc, tournaments may have served us well in the infancy of our sport, we're going to have to get used to the idea that sports are conducted head-to-head over an extended period, and if you lose, you're out.
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Originally posted by duffistuta
2. Again, I am unsure of that - Legacy, Miami Effect, NYX? Are they worthy of a place in the NPPL 18? Now it looks like Strange's squad is likely to be split between Strange and Doc's, would both those squads make the cut? And what if the Russians and Trauma, for argument's sake, buy a slot in The 18? Who has the best league then?

3. But that wasn't a choice between 7-Man and XBall was it? Also, there was a degree of emperor's new clothes there, and as the Euros found out wanting to play XBall does not equate to affording to play XBall.

6. I think that is true to a degree, but field design can mitigate that. One could also argue that XBall creates robots and that true ballers want the ability to freestyle and to use their brains and that 7-Man facilitates that to a greater degree.

A--I am not pro one format or ther other, or one league or the other, my concern is what is best for Paintball as a whole, because what is best for Paintball as a whole is what is best for PGi. Reunification would have suited me perfectly, but given that's not happening next year any attempt at strong-arming the NPPL out of existence is a very bad thing for Paintball in my opinion.

B--I am looking forward to seeing the website and the nature of the commmittees. I notice there is a media one...Cow, you may have to nominate me so I can get on the inside.

C--And I agree totally - all I was suggesting is that it might be on a 3,7 rather than a pair of kings.
2--The critical factor here is that the NXL and Open don't split the Pro ranks anymore. For every so-called marginal team NXL team there are equally ill-thought of teams in The 18. What is relevant is that the NPPL and The 18 have had things all their way until now (promotion, publicity, media, etc.) so we have yet to see what the general response will be but, biased as I likely am, I expect Xball to step up big particularly as the vids hit the street and all the PSP conversation centers around one league, one competition with the majority of the acknowledged best teams in Pball playing even if some of the rest aren't.

3--yes, it was because 7-man was on offer. Just in the other league. Lots of team made a choice.

6--but interestingly enough 7-man has, for the last two or three years, been making a conscience effort to accelerate the game and force style of play based on field design and yet it was still possible for Miami Pro to turn into a camp-fest. Meanwhile, Xball design creativity has been virtually non-existent with some layouts "actively" slowing the game pace down yet for the most part the game remains fast and furious. Design aside the different natures of the formats will always influence how they are played as does what constitutes winning.
If you read Bob's interview in 201 (?) he claimed to be the only coach actively directing his players on the field--and that is fairly accurate. The claim of being nothing but robots is over-stated. Every skill that applies to one applies to the other but they are sometimes realized differently.

A--Duffmeister, are you essentially saying that one league that includes the PP side of the equation is superior in your estimation to one that doesn't? 'Cus otherwise the result would be the same, wouldn't it? One league. (Which, after a fashion, is what Pete seems to be arguing--that he'll take one unified league any way he can get it.) And why exactly is one league, of whatever make-up, better for Paintball than 2 or 3? And if the NPPL ends up in the APF and continues to promote 7-man is that a bad thing?

B--It's a bit chilly here in Florida but no reports yet of dipping temps in hell. :)

C--perhaps but if you don't risk the chips you don't get to find out and the price has just gone up. Which, you may have noticed, was my point all along. :p