Big Purple Dinosaur tortures Iraqi POW's

[crom-dubh]

Dude you are not reading my posts correctly.

You asked what problems the US and the UK have caused in the middle east. I answered that question. I did not say that nobody else is to blame.

Isreal has done their fair share of invading. In 1956 they invaded Sinai. In 1967 in a pre emptive strike, they attacked Egyptian, syrian, jordanian and iraqi airfields. They then invaded the Golan heights which were part of Syria. Oh and dont forget the invasion of Southern Lebanon in 1982.

It is pretty certain that the Uk and the US supplied chemo/boi weapons to Iraq. With a new fundamentalist government in Iran, the west used Iraq to counter that government by giving as much aid as they wanted.

Again I didnt say that supporting Saddam right up to the point when he invaded Kuwait p1ssed off muslims. I said that was a problem that the US and UK caused in the middle east.

Again I didnt condemn the US' invasion of Afghanistan, I said that it caused problems in the middle east.

I am talking about the muslim world as a whole not individuals. If they didnt have a long memeories about all the wrongs that they think have been done to them by Isreal why would they teach it? When I say "long memories" I mean that they do not forgive or forget.

After the Afghan war with Russia had ended, almost all support from the US ceased. Many promises were broken. A brutal regime was allowed into power. The same happened after gulf 1. The kurds were promised a hell of a lot of military aid if they rose up against Saddam. Right at the last minute the US decided against that course of action and when the Kurds did rise up, they were massacared.

Irrelevant if Afghanistan was a big opium grower before the war, the CIA encouraged them to grow more. I can also assure you that the local growers do not get $1000's for their crops.


Add to this Americas support of a corrupt government in Saudi during and after Gulf war 1 and the on going issues in Isreal it is easy to see how many muslims can easily be led into thinking that their religion and way of life is being persecuted

Those are my exact words. It does not say that they ARE being prosecutede, it says that you can see how they are let to belive they are being prosecuted.

So I ask you to please read my posts before you argue with what I am saying.
I am not in any way pro muslim or pro terrorist or pro Saddam, I am just not in 100% agreement with some of the things the UK and US government has done.

 

[Furby]

Originally posted by Hotpoint
Technically sound-weapons are banned by International Treaty, as is psychological torture of POW's, and I'd say this classifies as both

It's been found that physical and psychological torture to be less effective than other interrogative techniques available today, such as sensory deprivation. The Cultural Shock technique isn't one I'd heard of, but it makes sense...the only downside would be if instead of giving up what they know, the detainees started moshing.

The psychotic, brainwashed animals at Camp X-Ray aren't POW's...they're detainees. What that means is that they don't have the rights and expectations that a POW is gauranteed under the Geneva Convention. Realistically, a majority of them aren't high level operatives, so their intelligence value is limited, but the problem arises when the question is asked what to do with them. These people are avowed enemies of the US, and they're using their God to justify their actions. That makes them too dangerous to release back to their home countries, or even allow them to immigrate to the US. Rehabilitation is out of the question. These people continue to threaten their interrogators, the doctors caring for their wounds, and the soldiers who were unfortunate enough to draw the duty of guarding them. I suppose we could send them all to France, since the French were so sympathetic to their cause, but I suspect even the French aren't *that* sympathetic...

 

[headrock6]

Ouch crom..Getting tired of these fish hooks to the cheek

Originally posted by crom-dubh


Isreal has done their fair share of invading. In 1956 they invaded Sinai. In 1967 in a pre emptive strike, they attacked Egyptian, syrian, jordanian and iraqi airfields. They then invaded the Golan heights which were part of Syria. Oh and dont forget the invasion of Southern Lebanon in 1982.

Or..In response to Egypt violating the terms of the Egyptian Israeli armistice agreement and blocking Israeli ships from passing through the Suez and blocking traffic through the Straights of Tiran and 260 Israeli civilians killed by terrorists in 1955(terrorism didnt start against Israel because of occupation) might have had something to do with Israel attacking military outposts in Sinai..The UK and France joined in seeking free navigation through international waters and Israel wanted an end to terrorist attacks..

In 1967 Egypt orders all UN emergency forces out that were stationed on the Egyptian-Israeli border..Egypt then announces a blockade on all goods bound for Israel..Syria,Egypt,Jordan mass troops along thier borders..Arab rhetoric at the UN hits an all time high..War is inevitable and Israel knows this..They strike first and take West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt ..West bank is offered back in exchange for peace at Khartoum..Take a wild guess who refused the offer..Creation of a Palestinian state now becomes the talk of town now that Israel controls West bank and Gaza..Never before when in control of Egypt and Jordan..So I believe it was hardly anything the US,UK,or Israel did to spark hatred towards the West..How about the irresponsible actions of Arab dictators across the Middle East??2 Attacks alone for the creation of Israel..Occupation wasnt even heard of then..PLO(created exclusively for the destruction of Israel)in Lebanon might have had something to do with Israel going in to take them out..

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Again I didnt condemn the US' invasion of Afghanistan, I said that it caused problems in the middle east.

It shouldnt have though..If Arab leaders condemned terrorism and the Taliban regime who refused to turn over Osama and his thugs decided to play nice,they might have held on to thier country..Instead it was played as a war against Islam without any Arab leaders telling thier populace otherwise..

 

[Mark790.06]

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Dude you are not reading my posts correctly.

And you're not drawing the conclusions in mine.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
You asked what problems the US and the UK have caused in the middle east. I answered that question. I did not say that nobody else is to blame.

Nor was I implying that you thought so either. I was just pointing out that:
1) They have no problems that they themselves did not cause.
2) They specifically single out the US, because in my opinion (and those of many others) our freedoms put at risk their form of fundamentalism.
3) The flaws in theirs, yours, or whoevers reasoning negates any perceived problems we may be accused of causing them.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Isreal has done their fair share of invading. In 1956 they invaded Sinai.

Because they were invaded!!

Originally posted by crom-dubh
In 1967 in a pre emptive strike, they attacked Egyptian, syrian, jordanian and iraqi airfields.

This has what to do with expansionism? Did they keep those airfields? No.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
They then invaded the Golan heights which were part of Syria.

Again, after they were attacked.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Oh and dont forget the invasion of Southern Lebanon in 1982.

You can take only so many rockets and missiles shot at you before you go on the offensive. Also don't forget that they left after a short occupation, not a definition of expansionism.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
It is pretty certain that the Uk and the US supplied chemo/boi weapons to Iraq.

Not certain. industrial chemicals and biological cultures, yes. Weapons, no. I'll be the first to admit, that it wasn't very smart, but we did not sell them weapons grade chem-bio. Then again it didn't take them much to make them that way.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
With a new fundamentalist government in Iran, the west used Iraq to counter that government by giving as much aid as they wanted.

Agreed.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Again I didnt say that supporting Saddam right up to the point when he invaded Kuwait p1ssed off muslims. I said that was a problem that the US and UK caused in the middle east.

Gotcha. I actually did misread this one. Exactly what problem did we cause though?

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Again I didnt condemn the US' invasion of Afghanistan, I said that it caused problems in the middle east.

But not this one. If the climate existed in the middle-East that could produce 19 SOB's whose last act prior to meeting their 72 virgins was to murder 3,000 people, I'm fairly confident that a substancial problem existed before we invaded Afghanistan.
On a different note I like what Dennis Miller said on that subject of the virgin thing, "I agree with you, the 72 virgins, I think that probably sounds better than it is. Seven or eight virgins, this is probably a good idea. You get around ten virgins in, I'm thinking you're gonna want a pro. Now, I like the befuddled thing up front as much as the next guy, but somewhere during the evening, I want a finger jammed up my a--!"

Originally posted by crom-dubh
I am talking about the muslim world as a whole not individuals. If they didnt have a long memeories about all the wrongs that they think have been done to them by Isreal why would they teach it? When I say "long memories" I mean that they do not forgive or forget.

Again, I was pointing out the flaw in their arguement, not implying that it was yours.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
After the Afghan war with Russia had ended, almost all support from the US ceased. Many promises were broken. A brutal regime was allowed into power. The same happened after gulf 1. The kurds were promised a hell of a lot of military aid if they rose up against Saddam. Right at the last minute the US decided against that course of action and when the Kurds did rise up, they were massacared. Irrelevant if Afghanistan was a big opium grower before the war, the CIA encouraged them to grow more.

I grasped the concept of their supposed beef with us, but if you're intent on listing each bogus one, I'm gonna feel compelled to respond to them directly, as I've been doing.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
I can also assure you that the local growers do not get $1000's for their crops.

And I can also assure you that they get substancially more than a goat and 2 chickens for it too.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
Add to this Americas support of a corrupt government in Saudi during and after Gulf war 1 and the on going issues in Isreal it is easy to see how many muslims can easily be led into thinking that their religion and way of life is being persecuted.

There you go again with, "it's easy to see." If my previous rantings proved anything, it was that it's not easy for me to see. Of course the purpose of my rantings was to show that the problems were entirely of their making not ours.

 

[crom-dubh]

I really dont see any point in carrying this on with you dude.

I post something, you slate what I post or do not see what I am trying to say. Then I try to explain to you what I originally meant then you change the meaning of what you originally posted!

For example you qoute something I say then rant on about something which has little to to with the quote.

I then explain some of my topics and you then use a pointless argument to tell me I am wrong.

You are never gonna see that your (or mine) government can ever do wrong and that everything bad that happens in this world is always someone elses problem. I am not saying that every problem has been caused by the US and UK governments but some of their foreign policies leave a lot to be desired.

 

[headrock6]

Originally posted by crom-dubh
I really dont see any point in carrying this on with you dude.

I post something, you slate what I post or do not see what I am trying to say. Then I try to explain to you what I originally meant then you change the meaning of what you originally posted!

For example you qoute something I say then rant on about something which has little to to with the quote.

I then explain some of my topics and you then use a pointless argument to tell me I am wrong.

You are never gonna see that your (or mine) government can ever do wrong and that everything bad that happens in this world is always someone elses problem. I am not saying that every problem has been caused by the US and UK governments but some of their foreign policies leave a lot to be desired.

Welcome to the beautiful world of politics

 

[crom-dubh]

looks like you and jose have been replaced dude

 

[JoseDominguez]

Nah........... just got bored, it was getting nasty and what's the point on-line. Could be arguing with a 14 year old girl for all I know.



Oh, it is.




I don't know about you, but about 2 heavily underlined and bold quotes in, I can't be bothered anymore.

Anyway........ been busy playing HALO and drinking with El Mariachi......... the closest they get to regular practice. Ahhh bunkering with the rocker launcher. Superb for 16 player mayhem.

 

[stongle]

Your allowed to play Halo and drink on a Monday night? I'm only allowed the X-box out on Tuesdays and Thusdays between 20:00 - 21:30 hours.

 

[Mark790.06]

Originally posted by crom-dubh
I really dont see any point in carrying this on with you dude.

I post something, you slate what I post or do not see what I am trying to say. Then I try to explain to you what I originally meant then you change the meaning of what you originally posted!

For example you qoute something I say then rant on about something which has little to to with the quote.

I then explain some of my topics and you then use a pointless argument to tell me I am wrong.

You are never gonna see that your (or mine) government can ever do wrong and that everything bad that happens in this world is always someone elses problem. I am not saying that every problem has been caused by the US and UK governments but some of their foreign policies leave a lot to be desired.

You listed the mistakes you believe the US and UK have made in the middle-East, and I disagreed that the ones you listed were, in fact, mistakes. That does not mean I think that our government(s) haven't made any.
You listed some examples of Israeli expansion, and I listed reasons why I felt they were not. That does not mean everything the Israelis do is agreeable with me.
You told me to re-read your posts, and I must confess that I do not see any discrepancies in my comprehension of what you wrote, and my responses to them.

Originally posted by crom-dubh
I really think that the arabic way of thinking is so alien to us westerners we cannot fully understand what problems the US and the UK have caused in the middle east.
------
Add to this Americas support of a corrupt government in Saudi during and after Gulf war 1 and the on going issues in Isreal it is easy to see how many muslims can easily be led into thinking that their religion and way of life is being persecuted

But if the above contradiction is any indication, there is a good possibility that what you wrote, or how you wrote it, may not convey your true meaning.