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Avalanche Cheating?

cheating

My apologies, but this is going to be a long post:

A few people have said that cheating is an integral part not only of paintball, but of all sports. I have to say that I would take issue with that, but lets examine a sport where cheating aka "Fouls" are an everyday occurrence; that of Football (or for our cousins across the pond, or at least from across the pond, soccer).

(Foul play!)

When a footballer fouls an opponent, the referee will (if called for and appropriate) stop play. He will inform the player of what he did wrong and may even penalise with a yellow or red card. Two Yellows or one red card and that player takes no further part in the proceedings. A considerable advantage, in the form of possession, is then handed to the other team.

In the case of unacceptable behaviour not associated with play the referee may still stop play and penalise players.

(And now here comes the important bit)

But this is not where it ends, after the game the governing body (UEFA, the FA whoever) automatically ban players for a number of games as a result of any cards earned.

Not only that, but the governing body will look at any particularly bad incidences, whether or not the ref picked up on them at the time, and may instigate greater bans or even fine players considerable amounts of money.

Particularly of note is the charge that the British FA may bring against any player "bringing the game into disrepute".

(How could this be applied to paintball?)

One really big advantage that football has (something REALLY worth noting is that football in this country does not have professional referees, in fact there are many of them that are fighting to keep things this way) is that video evidence may be considered in the case of any disciplinarily proceedings, so objective decisions may be made and action taken.

If a player breaks the rules then he should be penalised, not only with point deductions, 1-for-1s etc but he should receive, where appropriate, automatic bans from playing for the rest of the tournament, followed by a ban from playing in following tournaments.

Tournament organisers should film games (at least the finals) and then points should be adjusted and penalties awarded after the fact. So a player who has been seen wiping a hit (and there are commercial videos out there with players doing so out there) then he may be penalised.

If after the fact penalties were applied to may players then perhaps sponsors would be less willing to give that player their newest super-marker, and would be more likely to think twice before taking a double page spread in PGI of their golden boy holding his new toy.

(Why Paintball is easier than Football)
Paintball, unlike football has the great advantage that most calls are not a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact, if a player is hit by a paintball and it bursts then he is eliminated from play, it is as simple as that (well not quite, but I'm getting to that). You know when you have been hit by a paintball, with the very small exception of a few areas such as the marker, I feel it should then be the players responsibility to establish that he/she is still in the game, and not up to the marshal to keep track of every paintball.

(Why Paintball is harder)

Obviously there is always the touchy issue of "playing on" in a mugging situation. Many players feel that unless there is paint dripping down his goggles he is still entitled to finish the move and "let the marshal sort it out". If this is in fact the rule then it should be made abundantly clear to all concerned that this is the case. Marshals should be in positions to make such calls and should be willing to do so. However if games were in fact filmed, then contentious calls could be watched again and if it turns out that an eliminated player carried out a mugging then I feel that the points (including flag hangs) should be readjusted accordingly. After all if a max can only be achieved if all muggings were made by clean players; then it gives a big incentive to make damn sure you get it right and would help to ensure honesty at the time (if your team requires a max then you are much less likely to pretend that hit happened after a you mugged a player if you know that it'll be watched afterwards…)

(The End)

Paintball needs to eliminate cheating if it is to be considered as a real sport (come on guys, can you imagine the Olympic committee considering a sport in the state ours is in?) Maybe video camera's at tournaments is pie in the sky, but considering the amount of money involved a couple of cam-corders isn't that much is it?

I have never ever cheated at a tournament, and neither me or my team consider cheating to be acceptable, so like most players, any marshal can watch me any time.

Once again apologies for such a long post, but I feel that this is an important issue worthy of significant debate.

Richard Kirke
 

Urban

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Oct 31, 2001
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Originally posted by Buddha 3
Urb....if only things were that simple.

....

In my vision, the ideal ref would be at least thirty years old, would have had playing experience (so he'd know what to look for), have proper and solid backing from some form of federation, and would receive constant training and courses. Just like other sports really....
But I like simple... simple works :(

Oh well, back to the drawing board. I fit the 30+ with playing experience, or at least experience of knowing what to look for, but as for the rest...

Urban
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Brit soccer refs ARE professional now...

peace
Um... they may be, not sure, but one of my teachers at school was a top-flite referee and fought to try and keep them amateur.

Well maybe they are but they will have lost David Ellary (who Chelsea fans may not have liked, but was nevertheless a great ref) because of it.

Anyways I was really trying to suggest that after-the-fact, public and severe penalties are the way to go. An official reffing body, pro or otherwise is also the way to go.

Richard
 

rancid

Mother, is that you?
Hi Richard,

Filming tournaments? Video evidence? Pro referees? Who's going to pay for all this? It's idealism gone mad - no offence meant.

Until the fabric of paintball is more tightly woven, no promoter can afford to ban top-line teams. If x, y & z are banned from playing in the World Cup, then why should AAs, Ironmen, etc attend? It will undermine the prestige of the event.

Cheating is an economic issue.
 
Filming

Well, since a number of tournaments are already filmed (I presume this is the process by which DVD's are made...) and people like the Shagdaddies film games anyway, why is this such a problem?

Maybe just the ultimate's decision, but after the fact penalties would help insure fairer play. And after a little while poeple will decide that risking a ban isn't worth it.

That's what I think anyway.

Richard
 

acsik

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Sep 18, 2001
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Since we have the Milleneum ID's with ID numbers keeping track record wouldnt be a problem. I say: Intentional Proven Cheating should be punished with score deduction + money penalty. From the money we could help some worthwile fund....

(e.g: Porsche for acsik fund)

Peace
 

rancid

Mother, is that you?
Filming of tournies... but not in such a way that could be used for video evidence, think of the number of cameras required to tell if player a shot b before player c shot a? It'd cost a bleedin fortune, and where's the incentive?

Do you know, to my knowledge, there's only been one player successfuully banned in the UK - they were sidelined for three months. Do you know who that was?.... Pete Robinson!

Best add that it wasn't for cheating....:eek: