Avalanche Cheating?
- Thread starter Jewelz
- Start date
IT IS ALL A MATTER OF PERCEPTION
If you asked who will be cheating in advance at Chicago NPPl my response would be, to easy, all TEAMS attending. The point is, what some call cheating others think is not, a player aware of an early hit during a takedown many consider not a form of cheating.
Some will say, “I don’t ever cheat”, but I can guarantee you that if I was the referee monitoring these individuals that claim holy and of fair play, it would be just a matter of time before I caught them committing an infraction which many would consider cheating. As an example, how many times did you leave your starting point before the "GO" signaled by the referee? The true issue is blatantly cheating. Get real dudes, lets just say that you are NOT a puritan but you try to play a fair game without violating the rules. That is the extent of reality when it comes to those who would say " I dont cheat". Keep the finger pointing in your direction before you call someone else a cheater. I have seen the cheating from all the brackets. There is an old saying. When it comes to cheating "The Pros brag about it and the amateurs don’t talk about it". How much of that is truth? Only a pro would have that answer
I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game. No one looses everyone gets F8cked by cheaters and poor referee. If you believe that I have some land here in the Everglades, Florida for sale, just a little swampy.
The argument of cheating will never end and therefore if you as a player don't prepare to deal with cheating on the field you are just going to fall short of your game on that area.
If you asked who will be cheating in advance at Chicago NPPl my response would be, to easy, all TEAMS attending. The point is, what some call cheating others think is not, a player aware of an early hit during a takedown many consider not a form of cheating.
Some will say, “I don’t ever cheat”, but I can guarantee you that if I was the referee monitoring these individuals that claim holy and of fair play, it would be just a matter of time before I caught them committing an infraction which many would consider cheating. As an example, how many times did you leave your starting point before the "GO" signaled by the referee? The true issue is blatantly cheating. Get real dudes, lets just say that you are NOT a puritan but you try to play a fair game without violating the rules. That is the extent of reality when it comes to those who would say " I dont cheat". Keep the finger pointing in your direction before you call someone else a cheater. I have seen the cheating from all the brackets. There is an old saying. When it comes to cheating "The Pros brag about it and the amateurs don’t talk about it". How much of that is truth? Only a pro would have that answer
I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game. No one looses everyone gets F8cked by cheaters and poor referee. If you believe that I have some land here in the Everglades, Florida for sale, just a little swampy.
The argument of cheating will never end and therefore if you as a player don't prepare to deal with cheating on the field you are just going to fall short of your game on that area.
One of tha problems is recourse
or rather, the lack of it.
Genuinely clean teams are faced with the dilemma of play fair, get dicked on a regular basis, keep quiet and keep wasting their money. Everyone will like them but they'll get nowhere and eventually they WILL get disillusioned and leave the sport. Bad for all of us.
If they don't keep quiet and attempt to get justice post-game and make an issue of what has happened, they are branded as whiners and mocked even more than blatant cheats.
What is the clean team's recourse, cos it seems to me that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't...
or rather, the lack of it.
Genuinely clean teams are faced with the dilemma of play fair, get dicked on a regular basis, keep quiet and keep wasting their money. Everyone will like them but they'll get nowhere and eventually they WILL get disillusioned and leave the sport. Bad for all of us.
If they don't keep quiet and attempt to get justice post-game and make an issue of what has happened, they are branded as whiners and mocked even more than blatant cheats.
What is the clean team's recourse, cos it seems to me that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't...
the real problem
is not the "cheating" in whatever form it occurs but the failure to enforce existing rules.
People only really get upset about "cheating" when it pays off for the so-called cheaters.
Using the recent Vegas hullabaloo as an example (and assuming that the various accounts are more or less accurate) would anyone be making a big deal over it IF the refs had pulled the early starters, actually been on the field and in position to make the call and 1-4-1'ed the player who ran all over creation getting lit up before bunkering other players, etc? The answer is no. It would be a non issue and the conduct of the players involved wouldn't have changed in the least.
The only way to rid paintball of all the "cheating" talk is to have impartial professional referees who call the rulebook. Until that happens paintball will have a hard time trying to legitimize itself as a real sport and the carping will continue--(which isn't necessarily a bad thing.)
And about the "ambassadors" of paintball thing all well and good if we're talking about representing the game to non-ballers but if we're talking about representing the game in general then another element comes into play--that of role model. And like it or not, those at the top get the glory but they also get the heaviest scrutiny--yin and yang. The real question then is do those players and teams have a responsibility to the game and those who look up to them? And if so, what is it?
Moo
is not the "cheating" in whatever form it occurs but the failure to enforce existing rules.
People only really get upset about "cheating" when it pays off for the so-called cheaters.
Using the recent Vegas hullabaloo as an example (and assuming that the various accounts are more or less accurate) would anyone be making a big deal over it IF the refs had pulled the early starters, actually been on the field and in position to make the call and 1-4-1'ed the player who ran all over creation getting lit up before bunkering other players, etc? The answer is no. It would be a non issue and the conduct of the players involved wouldn't have changed in the least.
The only way to rid paintball of all the "cheating" talk is to have impartial professional referees who call the rulebook. Until that happens paintball will have a hard time trying to legitimize itself as a real sport and the carping will continue--(which isn't necessarily a bad thing.)
And about the "ambassadors" of paintball thing all well and good if we're talking about representing the game to non-ballers but if we're talking about representing the game in general then another element comes into play--that of role model. And like it or not, those at the top get the glory but they also get the heaviest scrutiny--yin and yang. The real question then is do those players and teams have a responsibility to the game and those who look up to them? And if so, what is it?
Moo
the real problem
My point was that many seem to have their heads so far up their own asses about this cheating issue that they fail to see the bigger picture. I use the word "ambassadors" in the broadest sense; Avalanche do more than just play the game, they have that whole sports team image which is so very important for the long term.
They are indeed role models for those who look up to them, but I think youll find that the good they do for the sport will always outweigh any "scrutiny" they are put under.
Infringements and cheating are part of any sport, not just this one and the public and the players accept that, at the end of the day, only good refereeing can clean it up.
What responsibility to the game do teams like Lanche have?
-To play like it means everything, more than just a game, and to promote the sport to the best of their abilities. Why? Because the outside world will notice those features more than anything else and the players will aspire to them...........I think Avalanche are doing a damn good job, few could do better.
Matty D.
Baca,
My point was that many seem to have their heads so far up their own asses about this cheating issue that they fail to see the bigger picture. I use the word "ambassadors" in the broadest sense; Avalanche do more than just play the game, they have that whole sports team image which is so very important for the long term.
They are indeed role models for those who look up to them, but I think youll find that the good they do for the sport will always outweigh any "scrutiny" they are put under.
Infringements and cheating are part of any sport, not just this one and the public and the players accept that, at the end of the day, only good refereeing can clean it up.
What responsibility to the game do teams like Lanche have?
-To play like it means everything, more than just a game, and to promote the sport to the best of their abilities. Why? Because the outside world will notice those features more than anything else and the players will aspire to them...........I think Avalanche are doing a damn good job, few could do better.
Matty D.
I agree with Baca Loco when he says that the problem is "the failure to enforce existing rules."
As our sport continues to grow, the reffing will eventually reach a professional level and the need for more refs per field will be met. When this happens, the cheating issue will diminsh some what, just as it has in most professional sports. The refs in the NBA or NFL here in America have the absolute last word, know the rules, and enforce them without bias or mercy. Mistakes are still made, and cheating still occurs, but not on a rampant level that threatens the sport.
As our sport continues to grow, the reffing will eventually reach a professional level and the need for more refs per field will be met. When this happens, the cheating issue will diminsh some what, just as it has in most professional sports. The refs in the NBA or NFL here in America have the absolute last word, know the rules, and enforce them without bias or mercy. Mistakes are still made, and cheating still occurs, but not on a rampant level that threatens the sport.
Yep, we get the marshalling right and we can all cheat on an equal footing!
But who the f wants to be a marshal? Where's the glory(or money) in that?
Surely things aren't simply going to change over time... this aint summat that'll mend itself. 20 years this thing's been going and we're still having the same argument we had on day one. And remember, we ain't looking for one ref or two or three to run a game. I can't think of any other sport that requires this number of officials to run a single day?
So, where are we going to find 2000 pro-standard refs who have played at top level, are willing to work for nout, have broad shoulders to take all the ****, have no affiliation to any other team or manufacturer and are willing to give up their families to travel the world every week... ****. As me old mate Paul McCartney once said 'It's a long and wiping road'.
But who the f wants to be a marshal? Where's the glory(or money) in that?
Surely things aren't simply going to change over time... this aint summat that'll mend itself. 20 years this thing's been going and we're still having the same argument we had on day one. And remember, we ain't looking for one ref or two or three to run a game. I can't think of any other sport that requires this number of officials to run a single day?
So, where are we going to find 2000 pro-standard refs who have played at top level, are willing to work for nout, have broad shoulders to take all the ****, have no affiliation to any other team or manufacturer and are willing to give up their families to travel the world every week... ****. As me old mate Paul McCartney once said 'It's a long and wiping road'.
So why bother having refs?
Look, if everyone cheats, and everyone is bending the rules, and everyone is willing, as Rico put it "I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game."
Why do we bother playing paintball with referees in the first place? Why don't we just ditch the marshals, and go back to the "I shot you first" arguing we did as children playing cops and robers?
If everyone will cheat, supposedly, and it's only a matter of time before every player in the universe is caught, then why bother? Related, I invite refs to watch me like a freakin' hawk at ANY tournament I play. You'll be bored. Actually, I may shock you by asking for a paintcheck on myself.
-Tyger
Look, if everyone cheats, and everyone is bending the rules, and everyone is willing, as Rico put it "I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game."
Why do we bother playing paintball with referees in the first place? Why don't we just ditch the marshals, and go back to the "I shot you first" arguing we did as children playing cops and robers?
If everyone will cheat, supposedly, and it's only a matter of time before every player in the universe is caught, then why bother? Related, I invite refs to watch me like a freakin' hawk at ANY tournament I play. You'll be bored. Actually, I may shock you by asking for a paintcheck on myself.
-Tyger
So why bother having refs?
So why bother having refs?
Look, if everyone cheats, and everyone is bending the rules, and everyone is willing, as Rico put it "I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game."
Why do we bother playing paintball with referees in the first place? Why don't we just ditch the marshals, and go back to the "I shot you first" arguing we did as children playing cops and robers?
If everyone will cheat, supposedly, and it's only a matter of time before every player in the universe is caught, then why bother? Related, I invite refs to watch me like a freakin' hawk at ANY tournament I play. You'll be bored. Actually, I may shock you by asking for a paintcheck on myself.
-Tyger
Tyger,
You are missing the point, it is necessary to have referees on any sport but cheating is as real as it gets. Blaming your loss of a game or an event to cheating is an automatic assumption that cheating or let's call it infractions only happens from time to time. In fact you call it cheating and others call it an infraction, breaking of the rules and so forth. The judges are simply there to enforce the penalties for those that blatantly cheat, they are not there to keep you from cheating. So, bottom line is don't cheat if you don't want to be penalized, if the judge does not penalize the opponent that broke the rule for whatever reason, would you call the judge a cheater? Yes, perhaps that is the problem, because we have a faulted system at the referee level. Those who cheat in other professional sports that have professional referees don't get away without paying the price for cheating as to where in our sport we have not attained that level of professionalism. So prepare to play the game going in with the understanding that player and referee infractions are of common occurrence. There is not one tournament that goes by without someone complaining about some player or team that cheated.
So why bother having refs?
Look, if everyone cheats, and everyone is bending the rules, and everyone is willing, as Rico put it "I don’t condone cheating, but I certainly don’t use it as a handicap for me loosing a game."
Why do we bother playing paintball with referees in the first place? Why don't we just ditch the marshals, and go back to the "I shot you first" arguing we did as children playing cops and robers?
If everyone will cheat, supposedly, and it's only a matter of time before every player in the universe is caught, then why bother? Related, I invite refs to watch me like a freakin' hawk at ANY tournament I play. You'll be bored. Actually, I may shock you by asking for a paintcheck on myself.
-Tyger
Tyger,
You are missing the point, it is necessary to have referees on any sport but cheating is as real as it gets. Blaming your loss of a game or an event to cheating is an automatic assumption that cheating or let's call it infractions only happens from time to time. In fact you call it cheating and others call it an infraction, breaking of the rules and so forth. The judges are simply there to enforce the penalties for those that blatantly cheat, they are not there to keep you from cheating. So, bottom line is don't cheat if you don't want to be penalized, if the judge does not penalize the opponent that broke the rule for whatever reason, would you call the judge a cheater? Yes, perhaps that is the problem, because we have a faulted system at the referee level. Those who cheat in other professional sports that have professional referees don't get away without paying the price for cheating as to where in our sport we have not attained that level of professionalism. So prepare to play the game going in with the understanding that player and referee infractions are of common occurrence. There is not one tournament that goes by without someone complaining about some player or team that cheated.