two things i miss in amsterdam....
ok, the players area was big, bad it wasn't really dry....
(if i remember, everybody knows, that at this weekend it should rain....)
and so a pattern forms!
- Thread starter KEN@AFGM
- Start date
ok, the players area was big, bad it wasn't really dry....
(if i remember, everybody knows, that at this weekend it should rain....)
R
raehl
Guest
And you guys wonder why the board doesn't want to legitimize this board...
Just to make a quick hit on the less games (which apparently isn't even true to begin with...)
More money is NOT necessarily a bad thing, if that money goes to things like better locations, paying officials, better local promotion, etc. You may not WANT to pay more money, but that's obvious - no one wants to pay more money.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be charged more money.
Players are short-sighted, greedy *******s. They want everything, and they want it for less. Promoters are also short-sighted, greedy *******s - they want as much as they can, hopefully while making it worth their time.
And those two groups keep each other honest. If the promoters just did what the players said they wanted, events would quickly go to hell in a hand basket. If promoters ust did what they wanted without regard to the players, players would obviously stop showing up.
Just because everything doesn't go right all the time (or apparently catastrophically wrong about once a year) doesn't mean the promoters are out to get you, OR that they players are really paying for what they want. It just means things got screwed up. Not saying it's an excuse, but it probably isn't malicious either.
There's nothing malicious about saying "You know, if we don't change this, I'm going to lose $50,000 when I run this event." and ignoring the player bitching that follows.
- Chris
Just to make a quick hit on the less games (which apparently isn't even true to begin with...)
More money is NOT necessarily a bad thing, if that money goes to things like better locations, paying officials, better local promotion, etc. You may not WANT to pay more money, but that's obvious - no one wants to pay more money.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be charged more money.
Players are short-sighted, greedy *******s. They want everything, and they want it for less. Promoters are also short-sighted, greedy *******s - they want as much as they can, hopefully while making it worth their time.
And those two groups keep each other honest. If the promoters just did what the players said they wanted, events would quickly go to hell in a hand basket. If promoters ust did what they wanted without regard to the players, players would obviously stop showing up.
Just because everything doesn't go right all the time (or apparently catastrophically wrong about once a year) doesn't mean the promoters are out to get you, OR that they players are really paying for what they want. It just means things got screwed up. Not saying it's an excuse, but it probably isn't malicious either.
There's nothing malicious about saying "You know, if we don't change this, I'm going to lose $50,000 when I run this event." and ignoring the player bitching that follows.
- Chris
And you guys wonder why the board doesn't want to legitimize this board...
Seems to me the promoters would do themselves a world of good by simply being more forthcoming and offer explanations to decisions that are made.
While they aren't obligated to tell anybody much of anything--except those things that bear directly on the players participation--it might be considered good customer relations to do so.
Further, it seems to me the PSP operated from your viewpoint for years and as long as they held the monopoly it worked fine. Not working quite so fine now though, is it?
The Mil boys have the opportunity right now to lock in their control of the Euro Series and they won't get it done by leaving the players out of the loop. Just my humble opinion, of course.
"Probably not malicious" is not particularly encouraging, I must say.
Seems to me the promoters would do themselves a world of good by simply being more forthcoming and offer explanations to decisions that are made.
While they aren't obligated to tell anybody much of anything--except those things that bear directly on the players participation--it might be considered good customer relations to do so.
Further, it seems to me the PSP operated from your viewpoint for years and as long as they held the monopoly it worked fine. Not working quite so fine now though, is it?
The Mil boys have the opportunity right now to lock in their control of the Euro Series and they won't get it done by leaving the players out of the loop. Just my humble opinion, of course.
R
raehl
Guest
PSP's problems have nothing to do with not communicating to the players, or at least not much. There's a whole host of other things going on in that camp that need to be fixed.
It's not lack of player communication that made things bad at Portugal. It's lack of internal organization communication, lack of INTERNAL standards for things as simple as number of "loos" per player, etc.
Of course, I'm not on the Board, so they could all just be out to take everyone's money, but somehow I doubt it. Not enough money to make it worth the bother.
- Chris
It's not lack of player communication that made things bad at Portugal. It's lack of internal organization communication, lack of INTERNAL standards for things as simple as number of "loos" per player, etc.
Of course, I'm not on the Board, so they could all just be out to take everyone's money, but somehow I doubt it. Not enough money to make it worth the bother.
- Chris
small efforts would have made big differences...
First off, we read the weather forecasts and they said days before the tournament what was coming! hellou!
Second off, one person with a radio in the players tent could have speeded up the progress on the fields. Bea did a tough job at this on sunday, but still that was one day too late! It was quite ****ty to stand in the rain for an hour or two for a game...
When you wanted some info, no one knew anything; "go look for the main man" was the only advice... which was not easy I tell you...!
In the dark, rain and cold one person from the staff appears in the player tent to give some info - the first and only info on saturday and said that the games will keep on going. I asked if he can confirm to us there and then that we will play or games that will take place in approx. one hour. He did that with the main man. We waited over one hour in the rain and cold to be told to go home... cool. The motive was that it was too dark... well it was exactly as dark the night before at that time...
Third, I'd say the only field where people wanted to gain a flow on was the Tomahawk field. The rest it could take easy fifteen + minutes to get two new teams to the flag stations. What was their problem! Disciplin and action 4 f*ck sake!
...and this is supposed to be paintball at best... makes at least me wonder...
bK
First off, we read the weather forecasts and they said days before the tournament what was coming! hellou!
Second off, one person with a radio in the players tent could have speeded up the progress on the fields. Bea did a tough job at this on sunday, but still that was one day too late! It was quite ****ty to stand in the rain for an hour or two for a game...
When you wanted some info, no one knew anything; "go look for the main man" was the only advice... which was not easy I tell you...!
In the dark, rain and cold one person from the staff appears in the player tent to give some info - the first and only info on saturday and said that the games will keep on going. I asked if he can confirm to us there and then that we will play or games that will take place in approx. one hour. He did that with the main man. We waited over one hour in the rain and cold to be told to go home... cool. The motive was that it was too dark... well it was exactly as dark the night before at that time...
Third, I'd say the only field where people wanted to gain a flow on was the Tomahawk field. The rest it could take easy fifteen + minutes to get two new teams to the flag stations. What was their problem! Disciplin and action 4 f*ck sake!
...and this is supposed to be paintball at best... makes at least me wonder...
bK
With a published schedule, it shouldn't be too difficult to keep things rolling - teams get banded/chronoe'd while the previous game is taking place, the previous game leaves the field, new players take to field, play the game.
If a team is late - tough, other team gets 100 points.
If a team is just missing a couple of players - tough, they play a few men down.
If a marshalling team allows the schedule at their field to slip (affecting all the other fields in the tourney) - they loose marshalling points.
If it's raining - tough, get out there and get wet - I've seen Premier League football (soccer) matches where it wasn't raining, it was high tide. Its only water ffs, get out there and deal with it.
If there's a catastrophic breakdown of the air compressor, the whole schedule gets a breather, delay slightly, and the organiser refunds an amount to every team, for being a muppet and a: letting the compressor go down, and b: not having adequate backup capability.
BECAUSE
There is a French player's association (the so-called Federation) and there is a new-born Spanish paintball players association. Are there analogous associations in the rest of Europe? Could they join themselves in some kind of EC Association?
This is inexact Robbo. Estratego Spain share lots of stuff with Estratego Portugal but they are also quite independents from Portugal.
Estratego Spain has always been great tourney promoters even when they've never organized anything as big as a MS tourney, of course (there is just not enough teams in Spain to make a medium sized tourney, let alone one of that size).
Correct. By the way, I am told this pissed off a lot of Portuguese teams since Madrid's teams did not travel to the Iberian League leg since they were playing the Madrid's League (organized by Estratego Spain).
No. I've said that Estratego Spain is quite independent from Estratego Portugal / Pedro. Of course Pedro has some involvement with them: they are partners.