Am A vs Am B in the MS?

[rancid]

Originally posted by Paul_collier
1. Generally speaking if you go to a millenium event you be playing the better Am's, Nov's etc as apposed to the local tournies.
2. Pub teams don't compete in the FA cup though do they?
3. The Pro's pay the most entry fee don't they?

Paul

1) But over time, will it be worth the wedge?
2) But if you are comparing Dynasty to real Madrid, then I will compare the Bendover Bob's to Stalybridge United.
3) I didn't realise that the pro division contributed more wedge than Am As, Bs and Novices added together. Crikey. I stand corrected.




(edited to add smilies)

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by rancid
2) But if you are comparing Dynasty to real Madrid, then I will compare the Bendover Bob's to Stalybridge United.

and i was under the impression that the pro footy teams stayed out the draw of the FA cup til the third round. so maybe the MS should introduce a qualifying system fo the nov teams? Nowhere in footy can the nov teams whose first tournament it is,choose where they get entered in terms of status (nov, am or pro) and play vs the biggest teams in the world.

 

[rancid]

Originally posted by sjt19
Huh? I go to the Millennium Series as an Am A player not to get a chance to play against the Pros, but to do as well as we can as a team in the event and the series. Nothing more, nothing less. i dont think the flavour of the tournament is bettered by a few Am B vs Pro games at all. The flavour of the tournament would be increased if there were more pro vs pro games. Thats why there were so many people following the teams round to watch Effect Avalanche, Effect Shockwave, Dynasty Tigers, Ironmen Dynasty, Strange Nexus, Nexus Tigers...wannt me to continue? The event would have been so much better and entertaining if there had been more train crash games involving the likes of BC, Avalanche, Strange, Nexus, Legion, Shockwave, Tigers, Ironmen, Dynast...y, Ton Tons, Effect..etc....Thats where the flavour is! Not watching Effect against team Z, or Dynasty vs Team Y

I don't understand, are you saying there should be pros only? Or that spectators shouldn't be watching the novices... perhaps we could have them playing out the back? Then they wont have any impact on the flavour at all.

I'm not sure you are trying to be objective.


I tell you what bothers me even more, is that sometimes I feel like a voice in the wilderness... I would like to think this is cos I'm a twt and not that people are too scared of voicing their opinions on these boards cos they are feared of being mangled by pros, aspirant pros, and the intellectuals.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by rancid
1) But over time, will it be worth the wedge?
2) But if you are comparing Dynasty to real Madrid, then I will compare the Bendover Bob's to Stalybridge United.
3) I didn't realise that the pro division contributed more wedge than Am As, Bs and Novices added together. Crikey. I stand corrected.




(edited to add smilies)

1. Not sure its worth the wedge now lol
3. sorry yeah, quite right.

Paul

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by rancid
I don't understand, are you saying there should be pros only? Or that spectators shouldn't be watching the novices... perhaps we could have them playing out the back? Then they wont have any impact on the flavour at all.

I'm not sure you are trying to be objective.

You said the flavour of the tournament was made by the Pro vs lesser teams games. I said that its the big Por vs Pro that maks the event exciting. Am not saying that spectators shouldnt watch nov players, but if you had the choice of watching the Ironmen play what would likely be a 30 second game vs team nooby or watch Dynasty take on Miami Effect in what would likely be a thrilling game, what would you choose? Aint a hard choice is it? The more train wreck pro vs pro games, the better the viewing would be for the spectators

 

[rancid]

Originally posted by sjt19
You said the flavour of the tournament was made by the Pro vs lesser teams games. I said that its the big Por vs Pro that maks the event exciting. Am not saying that spectators shouldnt watch nov players, but if you had the choice of watching the Ironmen play what would likely be a 30 second game vs team nooby or watch Dynasty take on Miami Effect in what would likely be a thrilling game, what would you choose? Aint a hard choice is it? The more train wreck pro vs pro games, the better the viewing would be for the spectators

Sam, I'm not talking flavour for specs, I'm talking flavour to attract teams in the future. But listen, mate, I've had my say... I'd best move on.

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by rancid
Hold on a sec though.

1) Ok, granted, there's no 'technical/training benefit' from being rubbed out by pros in ten seconds. But there is when you view the event as a whole. What actually happens on the field is less important than the flavour of the tournament. B'sides, if I want to play a bunch of ams and novs, I can save myself a fortune and go to the M25 series.

2) Course it happens in football. It's called the FA Cup.

3) The pros contribute the least to the coffers, why should they be calling the shots. If anything, the non pros should decide the future of the series - cos let's face it, it'll be an am event in three years time. (If it exists at all.)

But, more than anything, is this outrageous belief that what is good for the pros is good for paintball.

1) The fact that u might wanna go and play a bunch of ams novices, and can do so at the M25, doesn't give u the opportunity to see the top pros play and meet them if u want.
Also, to be part of a great event like a Millennium is another great attraction that the M25 or any similar size tourney cannot hope to match.
The fact that am teams won't actually be playing against the pros, in my opinion, doesn't impinge upon the ams in having fun or to being part of an 'event'.

2) May happen in the FA cup but the FA cup would mean very little without the league as a year long backdrop.
And Man Utd do not play Welling Utd in the ultimate battle of the premiership....
In most sports, the league comes first, with any cup championships as an addendum.

3) The pros, per team, contribute more in terms of pro rata revenue; however, as a total revenue stream, they obviously do not.
Nobody is saying we dictate anything; we just wanna play amongst ourselves because it causes way too many problems if we try to dovetail in games with ams.
My God, we (Nexus) had to play against 6 other pro teams whereas 7 other pros had to play against only 5, now that can't be right just because we have to service some over-exaggerated need of some am teams wanting to play against pros.
I mean, it's not as if we are servicing that need that much, the am teams are only getting to play one pro team at the moment anyway.
We need to play pro v pro, so that any team, pro, am or novice has an equal chance of qualifying off the bat.
As for what is good for pros being good for paintball as a whole?
I don't think it's a case of arrogance, merely being practical and fair and if that trickle down effect benefits paintball as a whole then kool !

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

I'd rather it was nov v nov, am b v am b etc.

No point n goin out and gettin rattled by the pro's, does both sides no favours!

Mak D

 

[rancid]

Shouldn't you be doing something else instead of harrassing novices?

Originally posted by Robbo
1)
The fact that am teams won't actually be playing against the pros, in my opinion, doesn't impinge upon the ams in having fun or to being part of an 'event'.

That's the key really intit. Maybe not the first year, maybe not the second year. But, when the promoter's expenditure on tournies is cut (as it will be); when the pro team entries are eroded a little; when there's a resurgence in local tournies (as we are noticing), well.... the cold shoulder treatment may have a nasty kickback.

2) May happen in the FA cup but the FA cup would mean very little without the league as a year long backdrop.
And Man Utd do not play Welling Utd in the ultimate battle of the premiership....
In most sports, the league comes first, with any cup championships as an addendum.

The second United pulled out the FA Cup, the tournament was wrecked. The second they came back, it was the best tournament in the world. United don't play Welling, just as Dynasty don't play bendover bob's...but.... they could. And, let's face it Mr Robinson, it wasn't six months ago that the players on your team were Ams and Novices - you, in effect, are Welling. And you didn't do too badly did you?


3) Nobody is saying we dictate anything; we just wanna play amongst ourselves because it causes way too many problems if we try to dovetail in games with ams.

Give over, by the time you've nailed who you've gotta nail, the pros will be playing the pros. My point is, what's the bigger picture and what is the long term effect.

My God, we (Nexus) had to play against 6 other pro teams whereas 7 other pros had to play against only 5, now that can't be right just because we have to service some over-exaggerated need of some am teams wanting to play against pros.

No. That's ridiculous. But it's not summat that can be corrected. It doesn't mean that the system must be overthrown.

How many pro teams lost to non pros in Toulouse?

 

[Robbo]

Firstly, I think any future problems, of what u describe as 'cold shouldering' (I would prefer to describe it as practical thinking), could be dealt with, if and when those problems arise.

If the FA Cup was diminished with the absence of Man U, then what of the league if the same thing happened ?
Just because Man U diminshed the FA Cup's value doesn't necessarily substantiate that format over the league's.


And as for most of my players being am and novice this time last year, this is true, but now they are pros........ and they play like pros; their accelerated learning curves and playing improvements has enabled them to shed that amateur tag.


I don't think any changes will be made because we are pros which I think is your point, changes will be made because it is the most sensible thing to do if we seriously consider the current state of affairs.
Paintball, like its tournaments, is evolving, change is inevitable, we gradually home in on what is needed, this is just part of a continuing process, the same process that got us out of the woods and then into stadiums....for the most part, change has served us well as long as it is managed sensibly.

I am not saying overthrow the system because of one anomalous arrangement, it is but one of several things that need to be put right.

As for how many pro teams lost to am teams?
Quite a few I think but the vast majority were won.