airsoft pisses on paintball
- Thread starter rancid
- Start date
BB guns suck.
reason for this...My bro shoots me in the ass with his gun at CLOSE range!!!!
The difference between 'wargames' and 'tourney games' is mainly due to the fact war is based on a goal of killing all the enemy and is not based around capturing a bloody flag.
Tourney games mainly are won by hanging the flag on the opposing teams base.
So if war is based on similar principles as tournament style of play would Hitler be sittin smugly with some *cough* British flags, USA flags *cough*.
We have your flag, you lose comerade
O yeah, i walked round preston on saturday doin shoppin with my tourney pants and jersey on wahey and i didnt have a single person look at me weirdly except hearing a few mumblings of "Wow he plays paintball"
O yeah i was in WH smithys and i didnt bloody find any paintball mags waaaaaaahaaaaa
Or i missed em coz a load of nerds were in the way ( readin all the mags they were, blummin cheek )
Airsoft? Dont even say the word, it brings evil and in Rancids case.... a good argy bargy
reason for this...My bro shoots me in the ass with his gun at CLOSE range!!!!
The difference between 'wargames' and 'tourney games' is mainly due to the fact war is based on a goal of killing all the enemy and is not based around capturing a bloody flag.
Tourney games mainly are won by hanging the flag on the opposing teams base.
So if war is based on similar principles as tournament style of play would Hitler be sittin smugly with some *cough* British flags, USA flags *cough*.
We have your flag, you lose comerade
O yeah, i walked round preston on saturday doin shoppin
with my tourney pants and jersey on wahey and i didnt have a single person look at me weirdly except hearing a few mumblings of "Wow he plays paintball" O yeah i was in WH smithys and i didnt bloody find any paintball mags waaaaaaahaaaaa
Or i missed em coz a load of nerds were in the way ( readin all the mags they were, blummin cheek
)Airsoft? Dont even say the word, it brings evil and in Rancids case.... a good argy bargy
One of the local paintball shops (associated with a local field) tried to get it off the ground here, but no one was very receptive to it, and, not saying this is the exclusive reason, they were out of business the following year. I just think it's a hair too diverse, and takes the focus off of the core readership (rec. and tourney alike). I think adding the advertising dollars is fine, just no damn airsoft articles. I don't really keep up on most of the U.S. paintball rags, but I'm pretty certain that they don't give airsoft any copy outside of the adverts, so just follow that, take the money and run. The closest I can come to this is the Kung Fu QiGong magazine I get, it's very much in the line of the 'internal' arts, healing, diet, blabbity-blah, stuff like that, and every issue of that has atleast one Soldier of Fortune kind of advert inside. You know, the, "Would you like to be able to destroy any man?!?" kind of deal. It's all about the $ everyone, and advertising is where it's at in the publishing biz.
Something I have noticed in this debate though, is the fact that the Brits are fighting this harder than anyone else, and I'm certain that this is in regards to our countries' personal, and diverse, gun mentalities. Your American brothers are trying to fight the 'war game' stigma, but admittedly, we don't really have to fight as hard as the rest, it's just more accepted here. Hell, I'd challenge you to find more than one house per block here without a gun inside. So Rancid, that's why the weight of paintball is rested on PGI's shoulders, even though you're really worldwide, you'll always be 'the Brit magazine'.
Cheers, all.
Something I have noticed in this debate though, is the fact that the Brits are fighting this harder than anyone else, and I'm certain that this is in regards to our countries' personal, and diverse, gun mentalities. Your American brothers are trying to fight the 'war game' stigma, but admittedly, we don't really have to fight as hard as the rest, it's just more accepted here. Hell, I'd challenge you to find more than one house per block here without a gun inside. So Rancid, that's why the weight of paintball is rested on PGI's shoulders, even though you're really worldwide, you'll always be 'the Brit magazine'.
Cheers, all.
Perception is reality
Couple of points from the outsider perspective--this argument is way too UK-centric for PGI's purposes. For whatever reason the UK is behind the curve in paintball development or evolution.
The "wargame" issue is really a non-issue. All sport is competition, the pitting of skill, will and determination to see who wins. Paintball simply uses guns which makes it easier to condemn in some minds and harder to disguise in others. Some people embrace that fantasy but most simply use it as a framework to enjoy the essential competitive nature of the game.
The great majority of newbies or occasional players accept the format they're given cus they don't know any better.
My point is simple. The existing player base was in large part introduced to the game as a war-type game (and apparently in the UK still is.) If they had been introduced from the beginning of their experience to a tourney-type game we would not be having this discussion.
And that is what is beginning to happen over here. The tourney scene is big enough, the numbers of tourney players pervasive enough, the marketing of all of paintball uses the tourney focus to promote their products. Consequently what is beginning to happen is new players are exposed from the beginning to a non-wargame scenario focused game and coming into the game with a slowly changing perception of what paintball is and what they want to play.
The real problem is competing forces and interests pushing and prodding paintball sometimes in different directions. From PGI's point of view--IMO--is to find the narrow line between leading and following. Industry is pushing tourney ball because marketing suggests you always lead with prestige but grass roots field owners don't want to "fix" what ain't broken. (Which is why Florida's basic scene is changing, cus the player base is demanding change.) Longer term mass media is the key. Rancid's 10 minutes of video can and will have a profound effect eventually but even today the mass media message is mixed--things like the new, well publicized SplatterFactor isn't really what we need cus it's trying to be all things paintball to all people (at least from what I've seen so far.)
Couple of points from the outsider perspective--this argument is way too UK-centric for PGI's purposes. For whatever reason the UK is behind the curve in paintball development or evolution.
The "wargame" issue is really a non-issue. All sport is competition, the pitting of skill, will and determination to see who wins. Paintball simply uses guns which makes it easier to condemn in some minds and harder to disguise in others. Some people embrace that fantasy but most simply use it as a framework to enjoy the essential competitive nature of the game.
The great majority of newbies or occasional players accept the format they're given cus they don't know any better.
My point is simple. The existing player base was in large part introduced to the game as a war-type game (and apparently in the UK still is.) If they had been introduced from the beginning of their experience to a tourney-type game we would not be having this discussion.
And that is what is beginning to happen over here. The tourney scene is big enough, the numbers of tourney players pervasive enough, the marketing of all of paintball uses the tourney focus to promote their products. Consequently what is beginning to happen is new players are exposed from the beginning to a non-wargame scenario focused game and coming into the game with a slowly changing perception of what paintball is and what they want to play.
The real problem is competing forces and interests pushing and prodding paintball sometimes in different directions. From PGI's point of view--IMO--is to find the narrow line between leading and following. Industry is pushing tourney ball because marketing suggests you always lead with prestige but grass roots field owners don't want to "fix" what ain't broken. (Which is why Florida's basic scene is changing, cus the player base is demanding change.) Longer term mass media is the key. Rancid's 10 minutes of video can and will have a profound effect eventually but even today the mass media message is mixed--things like the new, well publicized SplatterFactor isn't really what we need cus it's trying to be all things paintball to all people (at least from what I've seen so far.)
Perception is reality
On the other point this is true in some ways but then again the USA, for example, is somewhat behind the pack itself in organisational terms. I am still at a loss why after over 20 years there is still no US Governing Body for Paintball... I mean you can take rugged independence from authority too far for your own good
Oh yeah Manning26. Of course the Brits fight harder than everyone else... we didn't conquer a quarter of the globe by being particularly pacifistic
My apologies for perhaps being far too UK Centric in my own postings (note to self the "I" in PGI stands for "International")
On the other point this is true in some ways but then again the USA, for example, is somewhat behind the pack itself in organisational terms. I am still at a loss why after over 20 years there is still no US Governing Body for Paintball... I mean you can take rugged independence from authority too far for your own good
Oh yeah Manning26. Of course the Brits fight harder than everyone else... we didn't conquer a quarter of the globe by being particularly pacifistic
Re: Perception is reality
2--No, you can't. At the rate you all are going in a few generations Britain will only exist in the history books. On the paintball thing it'll happen--sooner now than later.
3--no, you're fighting it harder because the linkage is closer over there than it is here and the tourney-based core reject the association all the more vehementaly because of it. IMO
1--not necessary. I was only trying to suggest that the UK situation is only a small part of PGI's concern and not necessarily representative of the whole issue.Originally posted by Hotpoint
1--My apologies for perhaps being far too UK Centric in my own postings (note to self the "I" in PGI stands for "International")
2--I mean you can take rugged independence from authority too far for your own good
3--Oh yeah Manning26. Of course the Brits fight harder than everyone else... we didn't conquer a quarter of the globe by being particularly pacifistic
2--No, you can't.
At the rate you all are going in a few generations Britain will only exist in the history books. On the paintball thing it'll happen--sooner now than later.3--no, you're fighting it harder because the linkage is closer over there than it is here and the tourney-based core reject the association all the more vehementaly because of it. IMO
Re: Re: Perception is reality
Also assuming that's an EU reference the fact that the Republic of Texas joined the union has not exactly erased their sense of identity too much has it?
3--Maybe but it is by fighting the linkage that we seek to move beyond the state of Paintball in the US. Perhaps it is the Euro's with our sporting aspirations and flash stadium-based tourneys that are stealing a march over the backward colonials
(Not trying to start a transatlantic war here just demonstrating as you did with a touch of humour how perspectives on the issues can differ according to geography)
Anyhow back on the AirSoft issue I think it's safe to say the idea is less than overwhelmingly popular. I mean even the arch American RecBaller himself (Tyger) doesn't approve so it's not just a bunch of vocal Limeys in opposition
2--Yes you can. Lets think about the US Civil War for exampleOriginally posted by Baca Loco
2--No, you can't.
3--no, you're fighting it harder because the linkage is closer over there than it is here and the tourney-based core reject the association all the more vehementaly because of it. IMO
Also assuming that's an EU reference the fact that the Republic of Texas joined the union has not exactly erased their sense of identity too much has it?3--Maybe but it is by fighting the linkage that we seek to move beyond the state of Paintball in the US. Perhaps it is the Euro's with our sporting aspirations and flash stadium-based tourneys that are stealing a march over the backward colonials
(Not trying to start a transatlantic war here just demonstrating as you did with a touch of humour how perspectives on the issues can differ according to geography)
Anyhow back on the AirSoft issue I think it's safe to say the idea is less than overwhelmingly popular. I mean even the arch American RecBaller himself (Tyger) doesn't approve so it's not just a bunch of vocal Limeys in opposition
Perception is reality
Hey great, we're still going.
Hey great, we're still going.
Originally posted by Baca Loco
My point is simple. The existing player base was in large part introduced to the game as a war-type game (and apparently in the UK still is.) If they had been introduced from the beginning of their experience to a tourney-type game we would not be having this discussion.
No, we wouldn't - because there would be no such thing as paintball. ie tournament paintball is not the panacea many would have us believe - it is alienating, it is elitist, it is competitive and it is therefore less attractive and limited.
That's a bit bolshy of me, cos I must say that I'm out the loop editorially these days, and my knowledge of grassroots US paintball isn't what it should be.
And that is what is beginning to happen over here. The tourney scene is big enough, the numbers of tourney players pervasive enough, the marketing of all of paintball uses the tourney focus to promote their products. Consequently what is beginning to happen is new players are exposed from the beginning to a non-wargame scenario focused game and coming into the game with a slowly changing perception of what paintball is and what they want to play.
You've posted a few times recently to this effect....but I'd like to push you on evidence. When you say the players are forcing change where? how? why? and what makes them right? Who are these pioneers?
Maybe this can really work in the US, and ten minutes of TV supair will bring more people to the sites that ten minutes of TV 'storm the castle', I don't know. But my gut feeling is that this is all Emperor's New Clothes, and it will prove to be nothing more than an expensive glitch. And in ten years when we're still talking about tv tomorrow, we'll look behind us to find the grass roots has diminished, and the sites have disappeared, and the paint production has polarised, and you're back to having a choice of two guns and they're both sold by the same company.
And, I'll still be driving an old banger...with Hotpoint in the boot.
Re: Perception is reality
Anyway mate in ten years I'll be the President of the International Paintball Sports Association and I'll be overtaking your old banger in my chauffer driven Bentley (paid for out of the money embezzed from the Pespi sponsorship deal I've just signed)
Presumably with an ice-pick embedded in my back! I should have realised that being a cardigan enthusiast entails the mind of a serial killerOriginally posted by rancid
And, I'll still be driving an old banger...with Hotpoint in the boot.
Anyway mate in ten years I'll be the President of the International Paintball Sports Association and I'll be overtaking your old banger in my chauffer driven Bentley (paid for out of the money embezzed from the Pespi sponsorship deal I've just signed)
Re: Re: who wants a heated debate?
I had the privlidge of sitting in on a state board meeting for Wisconsin. Thy wanted to BAN paintball from DNR land. Ok, that's fair enough. Mind you that the DNR allows hunting of live animals with live mutitions on ths same land "in season".
Ok, that being said, the DNR official stated that "These survivalists play wargames with fully automatic guns and shoot at each other with paint filled bullets." It took him two paragraphs to say that, but there's the boildown. And he said this with a straight face! He hten proceeded to talk about how having wargamers on DNR land would be detrimental to the enjoyment of the land by other normal people.
What they wanted to do was ban paintball games, paintball equipment, and paintballs from DNR land. MY problem wiht the law, as well intentioned as it was, was that if I was wearing my jersey, or the same shoes, or even had a pair of JT gloves on my hands in fall to keep them warm I would be fined $10,000 and possibly do jail time.
The war image feeds into a stereotype that paintball is unhealthy. Now until somoene can demonstrate to the world that woods paintball is not survivalist camp, we're going to be forced to rely on the tournament arm to be an embassador for the rest of us.
Now as to fear of wargames, I want to to stretch your imagination to this concept. Imagine that the meeting I was in was NOT for Wisconsin, but in front of the US Congress. Now imagine that some congresman i holding up a copy of PGI magazine, and pointing out an airsoft uzi. Now imagine him saying "This is the gun that paintballers use to pretend to kill each other!" He wouldn't know an Angel from a hole in his bum, but his aids told him that we shoot uzi look-alikes. And he doesn't care. IT's IN a paintball magazine, it's OBVIOUSLY what paintballers use.
Sound far fetched? Not after hearing a DNR man, someone who was supposed to research paintball for the state of Wisconsin, say that paintball players use staning paint to kill eath other with fully-automatic paintball guns. I don't recall if he thought we shot bullets either, but I'd believe it.
Oh, and the motion was tabled until the DNR could re-word the banned equipment list for paintball. That was January 3rd.
-Tyger
Ok, you asked for it.
I had the privlidge of sitting in on a state board meeting for Wisconsin. Thy wanted to BAN paintball from DNR land. Ok, that's fair enough. Mind you that the DNR allows hunting of live animals with live mutitions on ths same land "in season".
Ok, that being said, the DNR official stated that "These survivalists play wargames with fully automatic guns and shoot at each other with paint filled bullets." It took him two paragraphs to say that, but there's the boildown. And he said this with a straight face! He hten proceeded to talk about how having wargamers on DNR land would be detrimental to the enjoyment of the land by other normal people.
What they wanted to do was ban paintball games, paintball equipment, and paintballs from DNR land. MY problem wiht the law, as well intentioned as it was, was that if I was wearing my jersey, or the same shoes, or even had a pair of JT gloves on my hands in fall to keep them warm I would be fined $10,000 and possibly do jail time.
The war image feeds into a stereotype that paintball is unhealthy. Now until somoene can demonstrate to the world that woods paintball is not survivalist camp, we're going to be forced to rely on the tournament arm to be an embassador for the rest of us.
Now as to fear of wargames, I want to to stretch your imagination to this concept. Imagine that the meeting I was in was NOT for Wisconsin, but in front of the US Congress. Now imagine that some congresman i holding up a copy of PGI magazine, and pointing out an airsoft uzi. Now imagine him saying "This is the gun that paintballers use to pretend to kill each other!" He wouldn't know an Angel from a hole in his bum, but his aids told him that we shoot uzi look-alikes. And he doesn't care. IT's IN a paintball magazine, it's OBVIOUSLY what paintballers use.
Sound far fetched? Not after hearing a DNR man, someone who was supposed to research paintball for the state of Wisconsin, say that paintball players use staning paint to kill eath other with fully-automatic paintball guns. I don't recall if he thought we shot bullets either, but I'd believe it.
Oh, and the motion was tabled until the DNR could re-word the banned equipment list for paintball. That was January 3rd.
-Tyger