A Problem with God

[TEKLOFTY]

*My definition of omnipotence being the ability to perform what is logically possible.

That's the thing, if you are omnipotent you can do anything - whether it is logical/against the laws of physics.

 

[Pmr Man]

robbo, in saying that you almost question reality, as maybe we arn't in the original timeline, and something might have changed in this world. if that is true there maybe millions of different reallities as they have been branched off as things have been tweaked.? i don't know if i'm making sense but by saying that question robbo you open the door to millions of other possibilities

 

[Robbo]

ok, let me try and explain it another way, a paradox is where one statement cannot possible be consistent with another.
The most famous of all these is I think called the Cretan paradox and it goes something like this :-

'I am a Cretan - all Cretans are liars'

Now this sentence cannot make sense because if he is a Cretan and if all Cretans are liars, then he can't be a Cretan .....but if he is Cretan, then he must be a liar ..... that's the paradox that needs to be solved.

And so to apply that to the question I am asking

God is omnipotent - but he cannot completely undo events, he just resets time-lines.

 

[Duncan Berry]

The main thing is that all Books preach is that God gave Man free will and so they could do as they please and so Robbo's problem would never be allowed to ahppen in the first place as by allowing Him to go back and change the past he would be denying Huntley free will even if that freedom resulted in evil.

So roobo mate i wouldnt beat yourself up over this too much as you have a dilemma over a scenario that can not and will not ever take place even if God was to be proved to exist this very second purely do to Go'd love of Man's free will.

On the otherhand if ita crisis of faith then perhaps a Priest or a theologian would be the person to go see

the problem is God and science dont mix

 

[Robbo]

robbo, in saying that you almost question reality, as maybe we arn't in the original timeline, and something might have changed in this world. if that is true there maybe millions of different reallities as they have been branched off as things have been tweaked.? i don't know if i'm making sense but by saying that question robbo you open the door to millions of other possibilities

I'm not questoining reality at all Pmr, and the notion of different time-lines is a pretty well known set of ideas and is academic to the paradox anyway.

 

[TEKLOFTY]

ok, let me try and explain it another way, a paradox is where one statement cannot possible be consistent with another.
The most famous of all these is I think called the Cretan paradox and it goes something like this :-

'I am a Cretan - all Cretans are liars'

Now this sentence cannot make sense because if he is a Cretan and if all Cretans are liars, then he can't be a Cretan .....but if he is Cretan, then he must be a liar ..... that's the paradox that needs to be solved.

And so to apply that to the question I am asking

God is omnipotent - but he cannot completely undo events, he just resets time-lines.

Here's the thing, if he is omnipotent then he can completely undo events - he can in fact do anything; to quote another paradox 'Could God make a rock so big that he himself couldn't lift it?’. When you consider God and all the things he can supposedly do you come across hundreds of paradoxes, but that's where faith comes in - an intrinsic part in believing in a deity is having the faith to put aside that which is irreconcilable with human brain power and just believing, for the record this is why I find most religion utter bull****.

 

[Robbo]

The main thing is that all Books preach is that God gave Man free will and so they could do as they please and so Robbo's problem would never be allowed to ahppen in the first place as by allowing Him to go back and change the past he would be denying Huntley free will even if that freedom resulted in evil.

So roobo mate i wouldnt beat yourself up over this too much as you have a dilemma over a scenario that can not and will not ever take place even if God was to be proved to exist this very second purely do to Go'd love of Man's free will.

On the otherhand if ita crisis of faith then perhaps a Priest or a theologian would be the person to go see

the problem is God and science dont mix

Free will isn't the point here, it's the paradox that is the point !!!

 

[Dusty]

Not at all, god being god, he/she will be resident and omnipotent in all time-lines.

I think the penny did finally drop with Dusty and that's why we saw him make a hushed exit out the back door but I don't blame the guy, I think when he finally saw the true nature of the problem, he also recognized the fact it's a real dooozie to try and sort out .....I think I'll join him

Not so much to be honest, I merely wished to avoid any kind of a fallout brought on by a difference in opinion, plus I had to get back to work

My sticking point is that in your original post to start the thread, you clearly stated "nothing is beyond the power of him/her upsatirs"

Thats a fairly defintive and final statement in my interpretation.

If nothing is beyond his power, then he can indeed undo any action. In my mind talking about differing time lines if indeed it is possible that they exist is a whole other subject.

That said, regarding time lines, if it were possible for god to rewind a time line, thus reversing the effects of an action and either moving off on a seperate time line, or continuing along the same one again, all things being equal, every single action anywhere on earth along that time line will be equally reversed, along with peoples recollections of those actions, thereby leaving only one entity, God, aware of anything having occurred in the first place.

Now on another point of view, God being omnipotent and then being presented with a potential example of something he cannot perform is subject to terms and conditions laid down by whoever is presenting the possible alternatives if that makes sense.

Its a debate that could go on forever, unless God being all powerful decided to end it

And yes it is a doozie.

 

[Robbo]

Not so much to be honest, I merely wished to avoid any kind of a fallout brought on by a difference in opinion, plus I had to get back to work

My sticking point is that in your original post to start the thread, you clearly stated "nothing is beyond the power of him/her upsatirs"

Thats a fairly defintive and final statement in my interpretation.

You bet your ass it's definitive, if it weren't, we would have no paradox.

If nothing is beyond his power, then he can indeed undo any action. In my mind talking about differing time lines if indeed it is possible that they exist is a whole other subject.

100% correct

That said, regarding time lines, if it were possible for god to rewind a time line, thus reversing the effects of an action and either moving off on a separate time line, or continuing along the same one again, all things being equal, every single action anywhere on earth along that time line will be equally reversed, along with peoples recollections of those actions, thereby leaving only one entity, God, aware of anything having occurred in the first place.

Of course, but that still doesn't change the fact that the event still occurred in the original time-line whether I, nor every other bugger in the world is oblivious to it or not.

Now on another point of view, God being omnipotent and then being presented with a potential example of something he cannot perform is subject to terms and conditions laid down by whoever is presenting the possible alternatives if that makes sense.

Damn straight it is, and it's me who is presenting it to him in the form of this thread ......we have to most certainly acknowledge the fact that the second statement, 'God was unable to negate the original event from happening in the original time-line and could only just rewind the tape on it' is made by someone not subject to the changed time-line ..... we must also understand, this is obviously theoretical here.

 

[Dusty]

Also being theoretical there are no right or wrong answers, merely different possibilities