A Problem with God

[Robbo]

This kind of makes the rest of the problem redundant........

To set the record straight, i am not even remotely religious. I believe in doing the right thing and living a life based on Christian beliefs but thats as far as it goes.

Dusty, I think you must be misunderstanding the problem mate.

The problem isn't redundant at all, it's alive and well and still flourishing inside my bonce.
The fact is, us humans seem to default to suggesting God is omnipotent...well, I am suggesting he ain't and I have given an example of something he cannot do .....
The whole premise for suggesting god is omnipotent is because if he created this universe we live in, then he can surely do everything???

This is not a problem of religion, far from it in fact because as soon as you put on a religious hat to unravel this paradox, you lose any objectivity you will need to solve it, it's a logical and philosophical problem.

 

[Robbo]

This kind of makes the rest of the problem redundant........

To set the record straight, i am not even remotely religious. I believe in doing the right thing and living a life based on Christian beliefs but thats as far as it goes.

*edit* i was typing as you replied.

Based on the above statement God can click his or her fingers and make it so it didn't happen.
I see your logic in the rewinding the tape so to speak, but if God is indeed omnipotent he can simply chop that section of history out and restart the movie. onipotent means just that. Nothing is beyond the power of him/her upstairs.

and God is a HE. Doesn't even sound like a girls name..........

No he cannot completely undo things, he can rewind the time-line associated with that particular event but the fact is, it still happened in the original time-line .....that fact the changed time-line continues whereby the incident doesn't happen is academic here ....is the penny dropping yet???

 

[Dusty]

Well using logic to unravel the problem you have said to assume that nothing is beyond God's powers. God can do anything he/she damn well pleases, to use your words.

How can you say to assume that then suggest that he cannot do something?

I see from a logical point of view that if i do something, anything, crash my car say, I cannot uncrash it. But assuming God is omnipotent he can. And assuming God is omnipotent he can simply reverse the timeline to the point where i didn't crash and let me do it again, or not, whatever he decides within his limitless omnipotency.

 

[Robbo]

Well using logic to unravel the problem you have said to assume that nothing is beyond God's powers. God can do anything he/she damn well pleases, to use your words.

How can you say to assume that then suggest that he cannot do something?

I see from a logical point of view that if i do something, anything, crash my car say, I cannot uncrash it. But assuming God is omnipotent he can. And assuming God is omnipotent he can simply reverse the timeline to the point where i didn't crash and let me do it again, or not, whatever he decides within his limitless omnipotency.

I understand and agree with all of that but I don't think the penny has dropped yet and it's probably something to do with the way I am explaining it.
We have a paradox of god being able to do everything on one hand and then an example being given where he maybe can't do everything.
Only one can be true ......which one?

The conundrum is trying to find a way around these two conflicting statements...that is the paradox that needs explanation.

 

[Robbo]

As a little addendum that might help the penny drop; the final comment, in asserting 'the event still happened in the original time-line' is made objectively and not subject to the changed time-line .... in fact, it can be me in the new time-line making the comment as long as him upstairs hasn't wiped my memory.

 

[Dusty]

The conundrum is trying to find a way around these two conflicting statements...that is the paradox that needs explanation.

Thats a better way of putting it, and a question I am neither qualified nor equipped to answer given my limited capacity for free and deep thought this early in the week.

 

[TEKLOFTY]

Correct me if i am wrong Robbo, but are you saying that if another timeline has been created then it is in fact a different God existing in that one and as such the whole concept is paradoxical?

 

[Robbo]

Correct me if i am wrong Robbo, but are you saying that if another timeline has been created then it is in fact a different God existing in that one and as such the whole concept is paradoxical?

Not at all, god being god, he/she will be resident and omnipotent in all time-lines.

I think the penny did finally drop with Dusty and that's why we saw him make a hushed exit out the back door but I don't blame the guy, I think when he finally saw the true nature of the problem, he also recognized the fact it's a real dooozie to try and sort out .....I think I'll join him

 

[TEKLOFTY]

Not at all, god being god, he/she will be resident and omnipotent in all time-lines.

I think the penny did finally drop with Dusty and that's why we saw him make a hushed exit out the back door but I don't blame the guy, I think when he finally saw the true nature of the problem, he also recognized the fact it's a real dooozie to try and sort out .....I think I'll join him

Dammit no lol, please make me understand so i can at least attempt to answer your problem.

 

[onasilverbike]

I think there may be some confusion here between omnipotence* and quantum magician!

I like the theory of being able to go back in time to commit a crime (even if that crime does prevent a greater one) and then returning to a clear conscience whilst having the perfect alibi. Obviously the authorities would be looking for you to account for your whereabouts at the time the act was committed and not at some random date in the future! This being accounted for by the "original" you, wherever you were at the original time.

Obviously Mr Robinson's needle is swinging from atheist to agnostic, how long before it hits the stop marked believer? Or, is he looking for a part in the next Terminator movie?



*My definition of omnipotence being the ability to perform what is logically possible.