A must read - PA rule change for the 2005 season

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Collier
Because speeding regulations can be enforced! Tell me how you catch me with my cheat board that is only activated when I put in a secret code and turn's the mode off with a single button press ow when not fired for a set period of time? You can't and won't!!

With speeding I could enforce that every car which goes through an MOT has to have gps tracking I can then cross refferance the cars position to the speed limits in that area. Instant real time fine!

Very well put. That's a great analogy.

In Sweden and in Georgia, my home state, I cheat on the highways. In Sweden many of us motorists drive very often around 25 kph above the posted limits. Of course that depends on there not being any police around. Get caught over 30 my license would get suspended.

In the places where I've encountered speed cameras I and everybody else drive exactly the posted limit.

In Norway they have cameras all over the place. Therefore everybody obeys the speed limits because scientific instruments keep it under control. Because I was used to pushing the "grey" area so much I got busted in a place where everything's under technical control. Cost me about $300.

I hate to lose my freedom of adding a little sales tax to the posted limits (because I've got a better-handling and faster car and I'm a MUCH more skillful driver and I've got a tremendous AWD system with sticky all-weather tires with tons of traction) but I suppose now I can enjoy the scenery and the CD.

The more we can get the technical things under the control of scientific instruments the quicker we can move on to the more important things about the game. The less subjective judgments that have to be made the easier my life as a ref will be.

 

[Hatts]

Originally posted by FAMINE

A person speeds in his car, he is fined/prosecuted, yet cars arent banned. Why would paintball be any different?

Interesting... so if I were to tell you that I know someone who has been driving everywhere at speeds in excess of the speed limit, averaging between 85 and 115mph up and down the country for the last 15 years without ever once getting stopped by a patrol car or flashed by a speed camera you'd still say the speeding laws were enforceable?

Have you driven down the motorway lately. There's millions of motorists breaking the speed limit every minute of every day... in real terms how many of them actually get caught and prosecuted? 10%? 5%? 1%?

I'd suspect in real terms less than 1% of every "speeding offence" is ever even noticed. Twice every day for the last 10 years I've driven along a dual carriageway with a 40mph limit... I'm yet to see anyone doing less than 50mph, most are probably doing more than that. Never seen anyone get pulled yet...

So in your comparison exactly how enforceable is the speeding law when looked at in those terms?

The reason the government keeps those laws is beacuse they make a shed load of cash out the 1% of motorists they do catch... not because for one second does anyone really think it makes an ounce of difference to the speed at which the other 99% are doing...

Should they therefore get rid of the speed limit? Well, if we're sticking with this analogy look at the German autobahns. But if you get caught speeding in a restricted area you get very heavily penalised, more so than in the UK I understand.

The rule change we have proposed for paintball is an attempt to take a similar practical approach. To have a rule that can be enforced and to be able to more heavily penalise those that are caught breaking it.

It's also takes into account that paintball and the technology available are changing and evolving all the time. Are we to stand still in time with an archaic rule structure that attempts to prevent progress or do we adapt to incorporate new developments?

If nothing changed we'd still be playing with brass barrelled cannons in our woodland camo's...

 

[FAMINE]

Whatever points made against this ruling, seem to have little affect on those who want it, and im sure they will go ahead regardless of other peoples views.

I only got involved in this thread to bring across the views of many I have spoken too. (didnt know this thread was here till I was asked to post on it!)

But basically the 30+ people who have raised this point to me have had the same view. Yes something needs to be done, but this isnt the way. These people have also stated that they will not enter a tourny with these rules in place.

Now i know some of you will say "well you come up with an alternative", Well sorry im a paying customer. Its not my job to enforce the current rules but to abide by them, and if I choose not to play at a tourny that cant get round this problem and changes the rules to suit, that is my choice.

As a customer I do not see why i need my marker capped/altered at my expense to play when i am an honest player. I dont wipe (never have), dont ramp, dont bitch at marshalls etc, yet I would be the one paying out more for those that do. Sorry that aint my cuppa tea.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by FAMINE
Whatever points made against this ruling, seem to have little affect on those who want it, and im sure they will go ahead regardless of other peoples views.

I only got involved in this thread to bring across the views of many I have spoken too. (didnt know this thread was here till I was asked to post on it!)

But basically the 30+ people who have raised this point to me have had the same view. Yes something needs to be done, but this isnt the way. These people have also stated that they will not enter a tourny with these rules in place.

Now i know some of you will say "well you come up with an alternative", Well sorry im a paying customer. Its not my job to enforce the current rules but to abide by them, and if I choose not to play at a tourny that cant get round this problem and changes the rules to suit, that is my choice.

As a customer I do not see why i need my marker capped/altered at my expense to play when i am an honest player. I dont wipe (never have), dont ramp, dont bitch at marshalls etc, yet I would be the one paying out more for those that do. Sorry that aint my cuppa tea.

So you'll be giving up tourny ball then?

[edit] Love the attitude though, here's a rule that there is no way to enforce, go fix it cos I'm the customer... lol [/edit]

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by FAMINE

As a customer I do not see why i need my marker capped/altered at my expense to play when i am an honest player. I dont wipe (never have), dont ramp, dont bitch at marshalls etc, yet I would be the one paying out more for those that do. Sorry that aint my cuppa tea.

Ok I have an idea, before each tourny each gun could be fitted with a special device that monitors balls fired against trigger pulls.... oh hang on wait, the cost would be put onto all the customers and as you never cheat never wipe blah blah why should you have to pay for the fix?
Ok they could take on more marshalls to tackle the problem that way, oh ****! who's gonna pay for the added cost...
Ok how about.. ok, I'm sure you get the idea!

 

[Matski]

Famine- If you play against a bunch of players who use ramping boards and your team gets mown down because you don't stand a chance of gaining domination...your gonna feel robbed as you have paid to play..but didn't stand a chance of winning because you have been unfairly out-gunned. The new rule would help stop that...whats the issue?.....

 

[FAMINE]

OK Final post on this issue for now.

How about actually enforcing rules, any marker suspected of ramping etc would be removed by the tourny organisers and handed to a tech on site for inspection. Any non original chipping/software would deem the marker open to further investigation at a later date but is kept by the organiser.

If said marker is found to be chipped etc then is handed to the police for destruction as an illegal air weapon.

Simple, stays within current rules. And the only people losing out would be those that cheat. And the penalty for the cheat is so high chances are no one would do it at the risk losing thier marker.

I would happily let a tech open my baby up to check it all over if suspected to be anything other than tourny legal. And if it aint legal i shouldnt be attending.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by FAMINE
OK Final post on this issue for now.

How about actually enforcing rules, any marker suspected of ramping etc would be removed by the tourny organisers and handed to a tech on site for inspection. Any non original chipping/software would deem the marker open to further investigation at a later date but is kept by the organiser.

If said marker is found to be chipped etc then is handed to the police for destruction as an illegal air weapon.

Simple, stays within current rules. And the only people losing out would be those that cheat. And the penalty for the cheat is so high chances are no one would do it at the risk losing thier marker.

I would happily let a tech open my baby up to check it all over if suspected to be anything other than tourny legal. And if it aint legal i shouldnt be attending.

Yeah of course and as a customer I'd be perfectly happy for you to take my property away and it potentially be destroyed. Yeah, from my cold dead hands maybe!!
Also prove I was using the features on the chip! Prove I even knew they were on there! You can't!!
And of course all the current cheat chips state exactly what they are on the chip

Once again, unenforceable!

 

[manike]

Originally posted by FAMINE
How about actually enforcing rules, any marker suspected of ramping etc would be removed by the tourny organisers and handed to a tech on site for inspection. Any non original chipping/software would deem the marker open to further investigation at a later date but is kept by the organiser.

There is NO TECH IN PAINTBALL, who can tell if there is dodgy code on a chip. So there is NO way to enforce the rules.

Originally posted by FAMINE
If said marker is found to be chipped etc then is handed to the police for destruction as an illegal air weapon.

That's impossible because you can't know what is on the gun's chip. I believe the ONLY way is to destroy the chip with acid and then read off using some very special and complex technology. Very difficult and very costly. Not common capabilities. Not something you can do to someone elses gun.

Originally posted by FAMINE
I would happily let a tech open my baby up to check it all over if suspected to be anything other than tourny legal. And if it aint legal i shouldnt be attending.

So would any cheat with dodgy code on their gun because they can be confident that the tech has no hope in hell of finding it. NONE whatsoever.

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Originally posted by FAMINE
Its not my job to enforce the current rules but to abide by them, and if I choose not to play at a tourny that cant get round this problem and changes the rules to suit, that is my choice.

But who is to say that the current rules are correct/final.

For example (I know, bloody football (soccer for the yanks) analogy again ) the offside rule was changed in football, did people whinge and stop playing, or did they accept the rule change as evolution of the sport and roll with it.
Same for F1 (now this may be a better analogy) - the governing make changes to the rules to improve safety, and level the playing field, for example limiting the use of electronic aids, and reducing the size of the engines. These changes cost the teams money, and lots of it. They don't leave the sport, they develop their cars and race strategies to suit the current rules.

Also, as per what the Collier says in his last post - prove that the dodgy modes on the software were being used - up until the current firmware, Race grips didn't have a semi-only firmware, therefore everyone using a Racegun had a grip that had the potential to run in a tourney-illegal mode. What would you have done with these markers? Hardly a fair case for destruction of marker.