300 fps or 280fps

[Liz]

I see I cross posted with Twinkle Toes!

I should probably point out that I'm actually in favour of 300fps, and agree that lowering the velocity isn't the way to safety. I remember when they decided that if they decreased the road holding ability of F1 cars this would make the sport safer 'cause the drivers would have to go slower or crash - seems like the same logic to me.

I was in part playing devil's advocate, & partly thinking that maybe some people were blaming a rule change for changes in patterns of play that weren't caused by that.

 

[Collier]

pupster01

Originally posted by Liz

"But its not just 20 fps lower in some my cases I normally chrono at around 285 and use the 15fps as a buffer, accuracy is decreased simply because of effective range i.e. because the ball is travelling slower it will drop sooner."
It's the same for everyone though, if you can't reach their back player then they can't reach you either.

I know that but that ain't the point I'm trying (and failing) to make! you said you couldn't see how accuracy would be effected I was just giving you an example of one way it can!

Paul.

 

[Beaker]

Style of play

There is a big difference between teams choosing to play a certain type of aggressive game (say Avalanche) against those that choose not to (say old style AA's)

But when you decrease the speed you are effectively forcing everyone into the close agressive game for the reasons given above.

 

[KillerOnion]

I think the 280 figure is more oriented towards indoor where ranges are going to be closer on the whole and no advantages for back players that would be doing 300 are lost. Granted that becomes a moot point when bunkerings are considered, but generally 300 allows for the longer type fields like 10 man Hyperball and such where longer range sweetspotting, cross field shots, and the like are striven for routinely. As for the saftey margin for spiking, yeah, most chrono at around 285 which is usually correct for co2 guns. With the constant improvement going on with nitro systems and regulators, 290 and upwards to 292 or so is the norm and the race keeps going towards being able to get that 297 or 298 figure, 277 or so for indoor. No one wants hot guns, and shops keep working towards eliminating them. Heck, teams I've played for have actually bumped up in the rankings because of other people shooting hot!

 

[Adrenochrome]

Safety

|I think this lowering of field velocity is ill thought out and unscientific.

The velocity is set at 300 because that leaves a good margin of error between the set velocity and the rating of the mask (which is an ability to withstand a certain energy not a velocity)

To suggest that a shot to the head could cause an intracranial bleed in the absence of an underlying anatomical abnormality is far fetched especially in a young person.

I am an intensive care doctor and as such see many intracranial bleeds, forces greatly in excess of that caused by a paintball are usually required to cause bleeding, even large skull fractures are not always accompanied by a bleed.

To cause a bleed the force of the blow must be transferred to the vessels in the head , the force required is much less in an elderly person, and less force may be required in those people taking certain medications but it is still usually a fall with a blow to the head or similar. This type of injury usually causes a subdural bleed which is amenable to surgery.

There is no evidence to suggest a safe velocity at all and so the drop from 300 fps to 270 fps is unfounded.

From the description of the course of the injury concerned it would appear to be a subarachnoid bleed, though commenting on a case without the full facts is difficult. These type of bleeds are caused by anatomical weaknesses in the blood vessels of the head and have nothing to do with blows to the head.

I feel it is better to await the coroners report into the unfortunate accident, if reccomendations are forthcoming then we should follow them and if evidence is provided to sugest a safe force to be applied to the head we should change our practice accordingly.

We should also remember that the person in question was a player like ourselves and from what i hear a thouroughly nice bloke, im sure he would want us to do whatever was safest with the evidence we have available.

When i discussed this case with a surgeon friend of mine he felt we should be more worried about the effect of repeated welts on our blood and skin than the risks of intracranial bleeding.

 

[Greg]

I think the whole reason this rule has come about is because of cheaters.

A player mugs another player, fires one shot, it bursts, the player carries on his run, he then feels several shots in the back, seems that the mugee has turned, wiped and played on.

From that point on the mugger will 99% of the time over shoot any other mugee to make sure they are out, this then causes safety breaches on site rules and it is definetly somthing insurance companies won't like.

Stick to 300 fps,

it is legal,

why complain?

wicked!

 

[Tyger]

The 300 FPS limit was reached by the IPPA back int eh 90's in order to prevent injury. The idea was that at over 300 FPS, you can break a finger bone with a direct hit at close range. And also 300 FPS is a reasonale speed to stop a paintball with goggles.

You guys never played in UVEX goggles and plastic Woodstalk masks, did ya? I did, I remember those days. Back when chronoing was standing in the lot and seeing how far the ball went. Or knowign you wanted rental #4 because that one shot further (And finding out years later that it chronied at 375 FPS...)

As for raising the speed, go play at 250 and tell me what you think. Indoor is 250. And, while I'm at it, if EVERYONE is playing at 280 FOS, nobody SHOULD have an advantage, right?

-Tyger

 

[Stan]

I posted on the original thread that concerned this topic but i didn't hear that it had been implemented!!! I thaught that the general consensus of that last thread was that it would be a bad idea to lower limit for the reasons noted above (lower fps=closer range=more agressive=more bps(balls per second)=potential for more injury!

 

[Beaker]

Puffy - god damm you use long words just remember the team calls are short and simple - we have punter on the team afterall

Greg - sorry dude but you are wwwaaaaayyyyy out. it all started with the death of "Red" Ken due a supposed paintball related injury.


But yeah - let's just say I don't agree with it shall we - that way we can keep the family filter happy

 

[pupster01]

ok so the general feeling is that 300 wasnt a problem if fact lowering the speed has led to the feeling that now its safe to mug

i concur with that feeling. Maybe its time the powers that be looked into this one again.