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2004 competition overload up north

Roland

Comrade Trogski
Jul 11, 2002
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You could say that about any of the leagues!

I,m sure that your intentions are to create a national tournament and I hope you succeed but at the moment I don't think that it goes far enough.

You can not have a national league based in one location, midlands is great for me but it was based in the South West for instance I would not want to travel every month.

I am not knocking any of the organisers they all work incredibly hard and it is appreciated by the majority of players, just putting forward some suggestions.
 
D

duffistuta

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And this stuff about the US having one national league is bollox as well...NPPL, PSP and Pan-Am are all major, nation-wide events, and that's without going into the thousands of other tournament series in the States.

Competition is good, the improvement in the US leagues this season has illustrated that...pick what you want to play and play it..whichever is best run and organised will win. Or there will be enough support for more than one to prosper.
 

Dark Warrior

www.paintballscene.co.uk
Nov 28, 2002
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Originally posted by Roland
There are not enough teams to go round!

There is the S2K4, PA League, Central 7's, Midland Masters, KOTH plus one off tourneys!

And that is just in the MIdlands!:confused:

Add in the SWPL, M25 (is this happening next year) and Millenium Series and you could have alot of poorly attended tourney's!:(

What is needed is for all paintballs top knobs to sit down and come up with one national tourny.

The top teams could play each other nationally while us peasants could play regionally (including the north) with a big national final.

It would take some organisation but I think it is what UK paintball needs.
Yes you are comfused
The Midlands Masters and 5 man includes KOTH and CPL dates just so happen to clash with PA's date in all but one event. so not a complicated as you may think, but?
To play in the CPL you are contracted to play all 6 events so you will either play in one or the other league, the smaller or CPL 2nd teams will have the MM/KOTH to enter and of course S2K4 caters for everybody.
It is fairly obvious thatsomeone made the decision that there is a war on between the CPL and PA and next year will decide who takes the crown. By the end of next year, I believe only one of these will remain in it's current guise, whilst S2K4 rolls along its merry way?
 

stongle

Crazy Elk. Mooooooooooo
Aug 23, 2002
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Tournament overload for some maybe.

Now before someone blows a gasket and starts the ol'flambe (again), a discussion on what it is may help.May I make a constructive suggestion for the PA cup.

Perhaps the PA cup should be pitched at a higher level than for everybody / anybody? i.e. a National Championship for the creme de la creme (similar to Nations Cup X Ball). And as Duffy aleuds to to, not quite the US model either (so you don't have to do everything they do if you like).

If you want a national series that represents geographic regions, towns or cities; you contact the best team in each area and ask them to field a team. Or organise a trial for the best players in that area. You could do this through their local site or whatever, but with teams made up of players that are geographically diverse how do you pick an area to represent?.

It also throws up potential issues were multiple teams are **based** in a single area. At present we are seeing teams saying "we are representing an area", but may not be the best team in that area. No disrespect to Iron Lions, but unless they are all made up of say Tigers, or Shock (as the best teams in this area), can they lay status to this claim. You also have UK Marshals **based** in this area as well, so what you could start doing is pushing the geographical relationship down from cities, to towns to villages to hamlets, as each team HAS to represent a town. This means that sponsorship is surely more difficult to come by (esp for the smaller teams) when you've only get the local greengrocers to ask.

If say London as a team name is taken by a novice team, the series is going to have a credibility problem if the biggest location names (and by extension sponsorship draws), are playing bottom league and the Steeple Bumstead 7 (i.e. a pro team, who couldn't get a city cos a nov nabbed it) are top Div.

Next point to make it hugely credible you need the best names in the country playing it. Now these players are going to be under contract to their teams and current (probably PB orientated) sponsors who are expecting results in the NPPL, Millennium etc. The success of this league is wholly dependent on getting these players in, if you ever want it receive wider publicity. You will have to work with the Paintball companies to allow these players to possibly shoot paint that is outside of their contact, or is the PA cup going to be a one Paint only Tourney (now they're a big win for whoever gets that).

Unfortunately Paintball does not have a wide target group, and there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (or TV millions as in Football). Sponsorship is given when the sponsor believes they will get something in return - increased sales (say Vodafone and Man Utd, whereas the names always on TV and a brand association is formed). Expecting sponsors to cough up cash, and by brand association only reach a small target group is asking a lot. However if the PA cup was to limit team entry to Cities or large identifiable towns, encourage the best players from an area or even representing that area, to play the series, the sponsors may get something out of it. It should also be a bigger media draw than having small town local rags covering it.

By doing this you eliminate the current pressure on teams to play lot's of series, and also lets we forget our current sponsors expect us to play the current events on offer.

A national series such as the PA cup is an obvious extension and a great concept for Paintball, however it's packaging and delivery must be absolutely spot on, otherwise it does just represent another tourney to play. I think the PA cup has raised a lot of questions for players, that are maybe unfair for a fledgling tourney. I think a lot of players would be interested in representing say Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, London etc, but they have to 1) be good enough 2) receive significant backing (probably only available at this level and 3) do so without alienating current sponsors.

Now probably some of you are going to bitch at me, but's it;s just an observation on how it currently appears. I've made a suggestion as to what I think is a good idea, and this is what your aiming for, well excellent (and if it goes down like that I'd be will in for trying to make Team London). If not then take it at FACEVALUE.
 

Ben Frain

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Sep 7, 2002
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I really don't think the geographical names thing is an issue. Whether the players in each team are the best or not is irrelevant.

Look at Man United and Man City in football. One is 'better' than the other but it doesn't mean one cannot survive and play because of the other, the geographical thing is just to get local support for a team, something spectators can route for in a game...

So you could have London Slayers and London Sharpshooters, totally different players, one team might be pants the other might be **** hot, doesn't mean that both teams couldn't play the series surely??
 

stongle

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Aug 23, 2002
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Ben,

Maybe your quite correct, but what I've read and how people have supported this league are that teams must represent a single geographic area, and that this will attract sponsors by association. I see you point but two London teams is a bit like two Conservative Candidates standing at a General election. What's it gonna do??? Split the vote, or in other words the sponsorship.

This is part of the reason for posting - more clarification of this is needed. As I've said this has the potential to be great, but all the angles need consideration.

I've always been uncomfortable with the Football analogy. Premiership teams are not sponsored for their geographic location (Man City / Man Utd argument), although their supporters maybe concentrated. In some instance a geographic association may exist and is capitalised on, but often what drives the sponsorship is TV air time and hence a BIG load of subliminal advertising (I mean that's pretty similar to what is being achieved). Yes at a lower level teams do get sponsorship, but at a greatly reduced rate and it is possibly more targeted.

To succeed, and what's getting bounded about as the Holy Grail - Free Paintball paid for by Sponsors, your Mission Statement has to be extremely vivid, concise and in some ways visionary (fcuk me I sound like a consultant).

I do think the PA cup can exist and should for the benefit of paintball, however the synopsis most be neither vague of difficult to determine. I, you, we all make investment decisions on a daily basis, but to do so effectively and with a significant chunk of cash, we need to see the full prospectus of what's on offer. No viable return, no money. This is a risk weighted investment for firms. Potential returns exist, but require significant cash support.....
 
Oct 4, 2001
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Originally posted by Benfrain


Look at Man United and Man City in football. One is 'better' than the other but it doesn't mean one cannot survive and play because of the other, the geographical thing is just to get local support for a team, something spectators can route for in a game...
i know, United are rubbish
 
Oct 4, 2001
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Originally posted by stongle
Ben,

I've always been uncomfortable with the Football analogy. Premiership teams are not sponsored for their geographic location (Man City / Man Utd argument), although their supporters maybe concentrated.
i know, there are no united supportes in Manchester anyway:D

just stiring:p
 

outkast iain

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May 22, 2002
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sid lighten up

whats the problem i was not having a personal attack on mak d it was some said light heartedly and he saw it that way.. or is a bit of friendly banter not allow anymore.... oh its another case for the "ENJOYMENT POLICE"
 

Spectrum

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Sep 4, 2003
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Why is there even a "PA" vs "CPL" issue? So they're on the same dates - i'm sure this has more to do with the fact that it's two weeks before the Millenniums than that it's a head to head competition.

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