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Bottle Blows Up

J

Jeff Abbott - Dye

Guest
SimonGiles said:
It sounds like carbon fibre bottles (i.e. stakos) are far more at risk from igniting / exploding (and blowing the reg out) due to filling to fast. Therefore lets stop using them at least until all sites have had a chance to ensure their rigs are filling at a rate that all bottles can handle.
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Do you know of any other fibre wrapped tanks that have exploded?
I don't.

Any one else?

This has only happened since Stakkos appeared on the market and they were originally sold as a tank only with no reg.

I am sure that 90% of tournament players use fibre wrapped tanks and they all use the same fill stations at events but it has only been the Stakko owners that have been involved in catastrophic failure of their air systems.

All the evidence so far points to the Stakko tank.

keka
 
Rabies

Rabies

Trogdor!
Jul 1, 2002
1,344
8
63
London, UK
OK, well maybe that blows my theory out of the water :eek: I'll stop pontificating now. Although I still believe that mandatory flow restrictors are a good idea regardless.

The bottle certification regime is pretty terrifying - the poor things are dropped, crushed, burnt, overfilled, have holes drilled in them and subjected to all sorts of other abuse before being declared safe. So if the Pi regs have half that level of testing, you know it means a decent product.
 
FirebirD

FirebirD

Grade 'A' Chump
Jun 22, 2006
810
0
41
33
Dorset
Kitch said:
Sorry for being late in responding to this guys, but I have not been at home long and as you can understand I haven't been off of the phone much.

Firstly and formostly Nigel is fine a couple of cuts on his hands and face, but to be honest pretty superficial stuff, I am not trying to downplay the seriousness of this incident as I know this could have been much much worse. After spending all afternoon in A&E with Nige the most upsetting thing for him was the lack of food and bed bath, Nige has been a close personal friend of mine for years he is understandibly shaken but in his usual 'is everyone else alright' mode.

The incident did involve a stako bottle, but as like most people on here I am not qualified to give a reason as to why this incident occured and to be honest I dont think speculation will help either.

Needless to say with something of this magnitiude a full and thorough investigation will take place, I have already been on the phone putting these measures into place. Until this issue has been resolved 100%, then a ban of all stako bottles has been put in place at our site.

I have tried to contact all of the team captains from today to inform them of Niges progress, I would like to extend my thanks and gratitude to everyone today with the calmness and business like response to this incident.

I was honestly taken aback with the amount of help and kind words from today I wish to thankyou all you are true gentlemen (and ladies).

Kitch
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Just thought i'd say thanks for fixing my fill nipple on my bottle this morning, just a shame its a stako though, haha :p
 
spreadz07

spreadz07

YOU KNOBBER!
May 12, 2006
2,359
1
63
54
In the coffee shop, Burnham-on-Sea, Somerset.
www.2hott4u.co.uk
Hi guys
Im home now and feel ok in myself. Got some minor burns to my hands, very bloodshot eyes, my wrist feels like I have fallen on it and bent it back on its self (hurt like hell to type) grazed retina in my left eye and other cuts and bruises.
The tank was a Stako with the standard Pro-Toyz reg. The only difference it had was a airbourne filtered fill nipple that Kitch put on for me so it wasnt touched anyone that didnt know what they are doing. The reg was NOT loctited in and as far as I know all in good order, there was no way I flash filled it as I do warn others of the dangers of doing this. In NO WAY am I pointing fingers at anyone else or anyone at the freekz site.
Basically it was a freak accident, someone may of used oil before I went up but then we could all say things to blame others or even myself.
This willbe investigated by people who know a lot more than me as Iknow all you guys are not happy. I am just glad that no-one else was hurt. I would always wish it on myself before others.
Clompy, I am sorry for putting the ****s up you mate and hope you are ok.
I would like to thank everyone who was there, I cant name names as I was a bit out of it. I do remember shouting at Bluey to leave me alone and everyone else to chill out. I also remember my team mates and Richard (Herman) being there and helping. if I have forgotten anyone I am sorry.
I am also thankfull to all you guys for your kind words, I promise I wont ever moan the forums are quiet again.
Thanks to everyone, I did have a few thoughts in the hospital about calling it a day but I am sure I will be still hanging around.
we can point the fingers at as many people we lie and speculate about this that and the other but at the end of the day no one was seriously hurt and in the end it was only me :D
Thanks again guys
Nige
Ps, the guy who asked about the blanket, it is in my car as I had no shirt when I left the hospital. Let me know where to send it and I will :)
PPs. can anyone fix my EGO for me ;)
 
jus

jus

Bulldogs
Mar 18, 2006
433
0
26
stafford
My understanding is quite limited in the area but i do know this... to cause an explosion you need 3 elements, a carbon based product (rust,swarf,oil etc) heat source (high flow rate) and oxygen ( at 60psi the equivelent fraction of oxygen in air is the equivelent to 100% pure oxygen!!) oxygen is very flamable. i worked out a safe fill rate should be approx 220-330 l/m this should take approx 1.5 mins for a 1.1 litre cylinder (slow but safe). if we need more fill points to solve the issue i would rather have more slow fill points than fewer flash fill unsafe ones.

if say at the p.a. or the millennium, in a player staging tent there were 5 fill points you still have time to turn around not a lot.... but in the quest for safety this could be 2 1/2 mins or 3 min turn around time.....

from reading the thread it sounds like no one at the event would have put oil onto a fill nipple, but consider this....... how many ballers have rusty fill nipples? i've seen about 10 in the last 2 weeks !! combined with a high flow rate, possible oil vapor coming from the compressor and high partial pressure of oxygen, could quite easily amount to the outcome of the last series of explosions.

i found out that stako make big carbon fiber cylinders for fuel tanks in vehicles that contain compressed natural gas and liquid propane gas both highly flammable, but they are not having them explode! i really don't believe the issue is with any of the cylinders or the reg's, but all to do with the lack of knowledge in operating high pressure air, and to have a better understanding of what we are dealing with, even if only filing a paintball cylinder....

other things i think that could, as a combination of, contribute to failures and explosions at hpa stations are the use of corrodible pipe fittings (non stainless steel(even these need periodic cleaning)), poor,infrequent or lack of compressor service's and as mentioned fast flow rates.... and with all of this you have the potential of a 3000 psi rated bottle or reg being filled to 4500 psi and people using oil on rusty fill nipples (why aren't these stainless steel???)

i'm no expert in hpa but as a diver for the last 12 years i know that you need (i've got some) certification or qualification to handle, mix or blend high pressure gases. the paintball industry needs to be educated in the same way. i might be wrong.... but i reckon if we all have a better understanding of hpa surely there will be fewer incidents.

if there was a reasonably priced high pressure air course for paintballers and sites would you attend one?

nige glad to see your still alive mate !!
 
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