Bottle Blows Up

[SimonGiles]

Thanks to Russ and B1scuit for those guidelines and recomendations. I shall keep a copy of these and make sure all my guys read them, and that our team adhere to them in future.

Similarly, it sounds like sites need to check how fast their rigs are filling and possibly throttle them down.

Best of luck with the investigation Kitch. I'm sure we all look forward to hearing exactly what was the cause, if you're able to discover it.

 

[Jeff Abbott - Dye]

Russ hit the nail on the head it is not the stako that is failing if it was it would have left the reg alone, to many companies are turning to china to make cheep regs to keep cost down, everyone is moaning about the price of equipment do they not understand quality equipment costs more.

There is more and more magnesium being added to the aluminum to make it easier and cheaper to make. in all the pictures i have seen of regs going off they have ended up looking like molten metal.....

we need tighter restrictions on the elements of the gun that work with hi pressure air including the fill stations... this will get worse before it gets better.

Stop being cheep asses you will be sorry when someone is seriously hurt or killed .


Hope you are ok Nige

Why are these regs not failing on tanks that are not Stakkos?
Why is it only the Stakkos that have been affected?

Surely these "cheap" regs are fitted to other tanks?

keka

 

[Rabies]

Despite the fact that all these failures seem to be happening to Stakos, I don't believe the Stako bottle itself is at fault. Why? Firstly, it would be unlikely to be granted a PI certificate if the design or manufacture of the bottle was flawed. I haven't seen the requirements or test procedure for EN12245, but I have seen those for HSE and DOT which are most likely very similar, and they are thorough to say the least.

Secondly, after the incident in Madrid, the design of Stako bottles has been subjected to more scrutiny than almost any product in paintball, and yet they are still allowed on the field at major tournaments. That implies that the tank is fundamentally sound.

HOWEVER: aren't all Stako tanks supplied with a reg preinstalled? This reg would not be manufactured by Stako, it would be bought in from a third party (most likely a Far Eastern manufacturer), so isn't it more likely that the design or the materials used in these regs is at fault? Regulators are subject to NO scrutiny or certification, yet there is more than a tonne of force trying to push a regulator out of a full tank.

I suggest that the common factor here is not the Stako tanks, but the regulators supplied with Stako tanks. Most high pressure regulators supplied today have no name on them, are manufactured in nameless Chinese factories and simply resold by Western distributors. As long as they mostly function as expected, there is no traceable quality control over materials used (such as exact alloy properies) or design processes. There needs to be some testing and certification procedure established for high-pressure regulators, as there already is for the pressure vessels. Without these controls, accidents will continue.

 

[Edd Hobday]

you know what, I don't even need proof - it is THAT important to me.

Oh well done. Nice knee jerk reaction. I hope some official somewhere in government doesn't think the same about paintball in general..... "It must all be dangerous, lets ban it".

If it was the stako something must be done, but instead of just blaming them because it's easy lets find out what ACTUALLY went wrong. That way hopefully it can be prevented from occuring again.

Gald to hear Nige is ok. Best of luck with the recovery fella!

 

[spangley_special]

but I have seen those for HSE and DOT which are most likely very similar, and they are thorough to say the least.

remember stakos do not conform to DOT specifications

 

[Big Mac]

HOWEVER: aren't all Stako tanks supplied with a reg preinstalled? This reg would not be manufactured by Stako, it would be bought in from a third party (most likely a Far Eastern manufacturer), so isn't it more likely that the design or the materials used in these regs is at fault? Regulators are subject to NO scrutiny or certification, yet there is more than a tonne of force trying to push a regulator out of a full tank.

am in no position to comment on the reg used, and what regulations they are subject to.

however i am under the impression that all regulators sold with/without a bottle now had to have the pi mark on them to show they have been approved and are suitable for use. this however whether it affect those already knocking about on bottles i have no idea

 

[Rabies]

remember stakos do not conform to DOT specifications

True, because of the rather unique design. But that doesn't mean that EN12245 is less stringent than the DOT requirements, just different.

breakawayBP: I've never seen any kind of compliance marking on any regulator, but that's exactly what we do need.

Last thought: I'm not in favour of banning things in general, and one has to recognise that it is impossible to eliminate all risk from any activity. But one action which I think would reduce the chance of this sort of thing happening again is the mandatory fitting of flow restrictors to air fill systems. I feel a lot safer filling from H-PAC's systems which fill nice and gently than the type which dumps 4500psi into my bottle at the push of a button.

 

[spangley_special]

if i remember correctly in germany doesn't evrything have to be pi marked, marker included?

...remember a quake pm7 being pi stamped

 

[SimonGiles]

Oh well done. Nice knee jerk reaction. I hope some official somewhere in government doesn't think the same about paintball in general..... "It must all be dangerous, lets ban it".

If it was the stako something must be done, but instead of just blaming them because it's easy lets find out what ACTUALLY went wrong. That way hopefully it can be prevented from occuring again.

Gald to hear Nige is ok. Best of luck with the recovery fella!

This is no knee jerk reaction fella. Something today was VERY VERY WRONG. To continue using a piece of equipment that has a question mark over it's safety to the extent that it could kill people is just plain crazy. What next - some guy in March loses both hands to a stako ? But hey, lets not jump to conclusions, ... a player gets a broken hip from a stako exploding event in June (but the jury is still out ...); etc.

It sounds like carbon fibre bottles (i.e. stakos) are far more at risk from igniting / exploding (and blowing the reg out) due to filling to fast. Therefore lets stop using them at least until all sites have had a chance to ensure their rigs are filling at a rate that all bottles can handle.

I remember the debate when we moved from Co2 to 3000psi compressed air, with people questioning how safe it was. I cannot believe that we now have a situation with a new make of bottle almost regularly exploding and some people actually seem to think this is an acceptable hazzard of the game !!! It is not (at least in my opinion it should not be).

 

[Rabies]

if i remember correctly in germany doesn't evrything have to be pi marked, marker included?

...remember a quake pm7 being pi stamped

You're probably thinking of the "F" stamp required for paintball guns in Germany. That's for a different law, unique to Germany, though I forget exactly what it means, beyond (in simple terms) "this is not a gun."