A Wind of Change
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
All understood and I am in agreement with most. I guess my own reaction to this thread was a little harsh too, but was borne out of passion to encourage positive thinking and action.
You'll get no arguments from me on that one Pete. I have nothing but respect for your contributions to paintball. Well, most of them.Robbo said:
You of all people should know that will never happen.Robbo said:
I don't own a site Pete. I have banged away at the tourney scene for over eight years now and only started getting paid (modestly) last year. I'm sure if I worked out my hourly rate, I'd pack it in and go open a site... I can honestly say the only thing that keeps me in the tournament game is my passion and, perhaps, stubborness. So, when that manifests itself in to an outburst like the one above, you'll have to bare with me I'm afraid.Support removed from teams will surely result in a more elitest Pro Scene as the only teams capable of competing right at the top would be the rich teams. We could end up with a Formula-One type of community at the top of Pro Paintball. There is already a very real factor of rich teams populating the higher ranks and it is very difficult for self-funded teams to get up to the top due to the costs involved. But then again, maybe player ingenuity will conquer that one. Joy Division and there ReBall project are a fine example of that.Robbo said:
Lower down, teams would have to pay full retail on kit and maybe use the same gun for longer than a year. They'd survive and the market would benefit as a result.
Support removed from tournaments. Well, it still makes sense for companies to market themselves at large events and provide customer support at these. So I am struggling to understand why you think this would happen. But I must confess, that I am in the dark when it comes to the level and types of support companies provide to Major League events.
I await your article in next months PGI with interest.
And the difference now is......?
When you really look at what we have now mate, there is no significant difference.
Syd, it's the level of support they give to tournaments when scrutinized on a relative basis with other forms of company promotion that is important here.
To a certain extent, the industry is preaching to the converted when advertising at tournaments especially when you factor in the relative sales figures for rec/site v tourney (about 90%/10%).
It just makes no sense at all mate.
The tournament scene is a lot more conducive to marketing media because of the razzmatazz etc and allusions to a real sport but I'm afraid this merely flatters to deceive.
Tournament support works on one level because of the coverage these tournaments get in magazines and so brands can get pushed in front of people's faces using teams etc.
But this only has a certain amount of mileage in it because somewhere along the line, somebody is gonna do the maths and realize it don't add up, it just does not add up mate, no matter how imaginative your bookkeeping skills may be.
At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, 'money talks, bullsh!t walks'...it's no good just saying 'we gotta support teams and tournaments', if you gonna say that, then you gotta be able to back it up somehow and I'm afraid it's an unsustainable proposition.
I think you missed my point.
The folks who have spent MILLIONS acquiring paintball assets DO make their decisions based on their wallets.
I believe that, to a large extent, and despite the fact that they are professionals at the money/investment gig, they've purchased a losing proposition - OR (and potentially worse for those who care)
they are looking at bottom line dollar turning activities: we can make 300,000 markers in china for 1.80 a piece, the chain stores will suck up 275,000 of them with at a margin of 35% and that trend is going to continue for x years because there's a million 12 year olds coming on line every year in the US alone - or something to that effect.
These guys were sold on: paintball is gonna be on tv, paintball is the most underrated xtreme sport, paintball has experienced growth of 30%+ for x years and on real savings that could be realized by consolidating the industry. Air. They spent millions on air - that's what I'm trying to say. The only way they are ever going to get their investments back is to drop everything to the least common denominator and eliminate the real waste.
If you were a Harvard MBA and your job was to analyze budgets and ROIs in order to gain profits for your employer, there is NO WAY to justify a large amount of the expense that goes for so-called marketing in this industry. For the same dollars that are used to sponsor company teams and events (and advertise those same things), you could spend a year shipping every single customer free gear. What's going to get you more sales - a high profile winning team that maybe 15% of the playing public is even minimally aware of, or a grass roots promotion directed at the guy who buys a paintball gun in walmart on a whim?
I assure you that the people who justified these corporate purchases did not do so for love of the game and they are not going to be spending more good money after bad trying to get paintball some kind of high-profile media exposure. They understand full well that you can spend dollars two ways - selling a few very expensive items to a very few customers, or lots and lots of inexpensive items to lots and lots of throw-away customers. UNless they made their purchases for some kind of tax loss, they're going to go low-end all the way and their wallets will be making the decisions: any product line that isn't meeting whatever their minimal return is will disappear. If you have to add a good number of percentage points for the support of your 'marketing arm' that helps you sell the high-end stuff, they are quickly going to drop those lines because they can't and won't meet those minimal returns.
The folks who have spent MILLIONS acquiring paintball assets DO make their decisions based on their wallets.
I believe that, to a large extent, and despite the fact that they are professionals at the money/investment gig, they've purchased a losing proposition - OR (and potentially worse for those who care)
they are looking at bottom line dollar turning activities: we can make 300,000 markers in china for 1.80 a piece, the chain stores will suck up 275,000 of them with at a margin of 35% and that trend is going to continue for x years because there's a million 12 year olds coming on line every year in the US alone - or something to that effect.
These guys were sold on: paintball is gonna be on tv, paintball is the most underrated xtreme sport, paintball has experienced growth of 30%+ for x years and on real savings that could be realized by consolidating the industry. Air. They spent millions on air - that's what I'm trying to say. The only way they are ever going to get their investments back is to drop everything to the least common denominator and eliminate the real waste.
If you were a Harvard MBA and your job was to analyze budgets and ROIs in order to gain profits for your employer, there is NO WAY to justify a large amount of the expense that goes for so-called marketing in this industry. For the same dollars that are used to sponsor company teams and events (and advertise those same things), you could spend a year shipping every single customer free gear. What's going to get you more sales - a high profile winning team that maybe 15% of the playing public is even minimally aware of, or a grass roots promotion directed at the guy who buys a paintball gun in walmart on a whim?
I assure you that the people who justified these corporate purchases did not do so for love of the game and they are not going to be spending more good money after bad trying to get paintball some kind of high-profile media exposure. They understand full well that you can spend dollars two ways - selling a few very expensive items to a very few customers, or lots and lots of inexpensive items to lots and lots of throw-away customers. UNless they made their purchases for some kind of tax loss, they're going to go low-end all the way and their wallets will be making the decisions: any product line that isn't meeting whatever their minimal return is will disappear. If you have to add a good number of percentage points for the support of your 'marketing arm' that helps you sell the high-end stuff, they are quickly going to drop those lines because they can't and won't meet those minimal returns.
Am I right in saying that a certain amount of money can be set aside by a business for sponsorship and this can be offset against tax?
I'm afraid Steve D's erudite commentary on the state of our sport is once again bang on the money.
I quite like seeing threads like this because they not only serve a purpose in upholding the very reason why we are here (and respected by all in paintball for such) but it also provides the average Joe with an insider track on what's really important from some very well informed and intelligent people.
We (P8ntballer.com) could well be viewed as propagating doom and gloom and I can sympathize with Syd's apparent despair but I think in this case, it's the lesser of evils and I would much rather indulge in realistic commentary than looking at our sport through rose tinted glasses for the sake of it.
That would be just a recipe for disaster in my view.
We have good times and bad, and to ignore the bad is tantamount to suicide in this present climate.
Let's acknowledge the bad, recognize and ignore the bullsh!t, come up with some solutions and get on with it, any other strategy sucks ass !
I quite like seeing threads like this because they not only serve a purpose in upholding the very reason why we are here (and respected by all in paintball for such) but it also provides the average Joe with an insider track on what's really important from some very well informed and intelligent people.
We (P8ntballer.com) could well be viewed as propagating doom and gloom and I can sympathize with Syd's apparent despair but I think in this case, it's the lesser of evils and I would much rather indulge in realistic commentary than looking at our sport through rose tinted glasses for the sake of it.
That would be just a recipe for disaster in my view.
We have good times and bad, and to ignore the bad is tantamount to suicide in this present climate.
Let's acknowledge the bad, recognize and ignore the bullsh!t, come up with some solutions and get on with it, any other strategy sucks ass !
Oh, just wait until Smart Parts get's bought out. Then all hell will break loose as a megacorporation is in control of the major patents that already stifle our industry. You think they'll be nice enough to accept a few bucks as a licensing fee to make an electro gun? The end is near for the little companies.
Hybrid's in trouble with their halo shells. Board companies are in trouble with their boards.
The time will come when you can't even make a feedneck or barrel on a gun because the manufacturer has patented some method of attaching the part to it.
On the flip side, we'll see investors looking around and wondering why they are sponsoring so many scrub teams and dry up those funds even more. The US tournament scene might become localized with the National scene becoming more like Europe as it gets expensive to compete and train a team for top level competition.
Since Europe depends on those same funds for their teams, they'll be even worse off.
I see this stuff rolling in motion within the next 5 years.
That's the dark side of the story, and chances are it won't pan out 100% like that, but some of it will surely come to fruition.
On the flip side we'll probably have some really cool guns that look like AK47s...
Hybrid's in trouble with their halo shells. Board companies are in trouble with their boards.
The time will come when you can't even make a feedneck or barrel on a gun because the manufacturer has patented some method of attaching the part to it.
On the flip side, we'll see investors looking around and wondering why they are sponsoring so many scrub teams and dry up those funds even more. The US tournament scene might become localized with the National scene becoming more like Europe as it gets expensive to compete and train a team for top level competition.
Since Europe depends on those same funds for their teams, they'll be even worse off.
I see this stuff rolling in motion within the next 5 years.
That's the dark side of the story, and chances are it won't pan out 100% like that, but some of it will surely come to fruition.
On the flip side we'll probably have some really cool guns that look like AK47s...
Hmmm, patent acquisition has for the past couple of years been moving up the menu of these large corporation bodies.
I'm not so sure it will pan out as you suggest Dissent but I wouldn't be surprised if you were right.
Wheels within wheels...
I'm not so sure it will pan out as you suggest Dissent but I wouldn't be surprised if you were right.
Wheels within wheels...
