A Wind of Change

[Syd (NSPL)]

In the meantime, all those good initiatives, all those determined players, all those people truely passionate about their sport are supposed to... what? Live off of... Doom, doom, doom and gloom.

There seems to be a running theme here. One of wanting tournament players to face up to the supposed fact that their sport is in crisis. Bull****. It isn't. Pro ball MAY be facing some problems, but tournament paintball lives on regardless. Unfortunately, we have some rather vocal contributers that seem to no longer have any faith left in tourney ball. That's fine. But this is predominently a forum for tournament players and subjecting this community to constant doom and gloom is supposed to achieve what?

I understand that things may change within the industry and that certain people may need to be encouraged to see the light. But WTF is the purpose in this thread, not as it may have been intended but as it has developed. What good is this going to do? Is this thread getting the right message across to the right people, or is it a self-harming and ultimately-damaging pointless exercise?

I don't want to bury my head in the sand, but I sure don't want to bash my own skull in either.

 

[stongle]

It's an internet debate, and perhaps the only decent one that's been had around here for a long time. I would expect there to be a certain amount of Devils Advocate?

Anyway, a few voices opposed to the vast Tournament majority, I hardly think that consitutes pounding peoples heads against a brickwall? Perhaps if you read the thread, the vast majority are Pro Tournament ball, but their advocating a means of promo'ing it that's been tried for years and failed. Suggest some short term pain, which would ultimately work in your very favour and everyones slitting their wrists? The status quo needs to be challenged and perhaps subsidising tournament is not the way forward. If it's the absolute pinnicle of Paintball, make it mean something.....

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

But I don't see what this is supposed to achieve here? Its all very well asking for a change of mindset across site-owners UK wide in order to make a better environment for the whole scene. Its all very well asking the community to embrace the recreational scene as an intrinsic part of the whole scene. (Both things I personally agree with, but don't see what asking for them here will achieve.) But is this "devils advocate" stance, in this context, and with the scope of this threads audience, likely to get the results you would like to see or, infact, decrease the morale of the very community we would like to see thrive?

Instead, why can't we throw our weight behind the good initiatives that are going on out here in the tournament paintball world, build upon them, create some fine examples of best practice and encourage the whole scene to follow suit by demonstrating profitability, sustainability and success. Focus on the positives, help to build them in to examples of what can be done, and proactively demonstrate this best practice to other venues/projects. Along this road, we may find harnessing the passion we already have in the sport pays dividends and also has the added benefit of keeping the existing community interested, motivated and involved.

 

[Baca Loco]

For those of you outside the loop, the industry is in a bit of a turmoil at the moment, on one hand we have a plateauing of sales (and that's being optimistic) and on the other, we have corporate takeovers of our paintball industry becoming the norm.
Of late, we have seen PMI and NPS bought out in a combine deal to form the new Company Kee Action Sports; Draxxus was bought out by ISS.

JT, Viewloader and Brass Eagle by K2, Tippmann by another huge group which basically leaves Dye, Planet, Smart Parts and Kingman to withstand the bigboy onslaught.

Now my question is this, we all know high end corporate boards work on different financial criteria than our existing industry boards (inc those prior to takeovers) and so, how does everybody think this new philosophy will impact upon our sport.

Have no worries, Syd. The majority of responses are, shall we say, unresponsive. Same old, same old. A few started by keeping the original question in mind but drifted away.
Glenn is his usual deranged yet perceptive self and he's in the neighborhood.
In your case, Syd, I'd not spend much time on it as I sincerely doubt it will impact you or your teams overmuch. There will certainly be changes but I rather doubt any of them will affect the UK kids too much excepting to perhaps further entrench and "justify" the practices of many site owners and continue the practices that put up, in my view, an unreasonable barrier between the forms of ball played.

 

[Robbo]

Oh my, what an interesting thread
And Glen's (Stongle) comments are bang on the money, and I mean, bang on !!!

 

[stongle]

SYd, Take your point, but I can't stand what has become an instutionalised arrogance amongst many ballers that they deserve special treatment because they are "owed" simply because they play tournament. I do have a harsh view, but it's because we / tournament players as a group have ourselves to blame for what is a malaise. We need a sharp shock and possibly a reality check (as we are NOT superior to rec / customer in the light of the companies), to put Tournament back on track.

Take a glance in classifieds and look at the amount of vitually brand new guns going for a song. Sure cheap tournament capable guns such as the Ion / PMR etc have contributed to this fact; but a lot of those gats are players dumping discounted (sponsored) guns onto the market place way below their MRRP's and inturn hurting the retailer who helped them in the first place. Too many gun are being discounted at retailer / wholesaler level and it's the same with paint.

This over subsidy to tournament seems wrong to me, and damaging to the industry itself. I think the industry itself should correct this (i.e. reduce the flow of discounted goods into Tournament). It will be hard for ballers, but if they see the true value of the support they have received, and by again supporting the retailers eventually the support will come back, but the emphasis will be on players earning it rather than being gifted it.

Perhaps I am over harsh, but there's alot of growing up to be done.

 

[Robbo]

But I don't see what this is supposed to achieve here? Its all very well asking for a change of mindset across site-owners UK wide in order to make a better environment for the whole scene. Its all very well asking the community to embrace the recreational scene as an intrinsic part of the whole scene. (Both things I personally agree with, but don't see what asking for them here will achieve.) But is this "devils advocate" stance, in this context, and with the scope of this threads audience, likely to get the results you would like to see or, infact, decrease the morale of the very community we would like to see thrive?

Instead, why can't we throw our weight behind the good initiatives that are going on out here in the tournament paintball world, build upon them, create some fine examples of best practice and encourage the whole scene to follow suit by demonstrating profitability, sustainability and success. Focus on the positives, help to build them in to examples of what can be done, and proactively demonstrate this best practice to other venues/projects. Along this road, we may find harnessing the passion we already have in the sport pays dividends and also has the added benefit of keeping the existing community interested, motivated and involved.

Syd, the responsibility of this site is to promote intelligent and maybe controversial debate, which I think this thread has done.
If you feel this to be working as a negative, then it may well be incumbent upon you and others to work in the positive but remember here, these guys are only commenting upon what they see and what they feel is likely to happen, you cannot bring into question the justification for the existence of this thread just because you wished the commentary was optimistic or encouraging.
The reason it isn't is because the situation doesn't warrant it..........

Chris, I have tried more than most to get things going, I have earned the right to say whatever I wanna about paintball in the UK (and worldwide) and trust me Chris, it sucks.

I don't earn money from tourney ball, or events, or sites, or shops, or anything like that, you do, and so if you wanna be more positive, and be more encouraging then good luck to ya mate but if you ask me to, I would be pissing in the wind and lying to me back teeth if I indulged myself.

 

[SPHEREPOINT]

It is about time these forums got interesting again! Without a doubt, the grandiose subsidizing of tournament teams is one of many issues affecting the industry. Having been a passenger on the gravy train as well as receiving $300 + paint bills (per player) at the end of an event, I can tell you this: the sense of entitlement that seems to come from the new wave of tournament players is negatively affecting retail stores, tournaments, and the general progression of players up the paintball ladder.

These new kids of the X-Ball set, as I'll call them, have not earned their stripes. They are given paint and their field fees paid. They are not earning what many before them have. And by not paying or earning, they have no investment in the game that many before them have worked hard to build. With this mindset, we are building the player who does not steadily rise through the ranks, spending money or time equally as steadily. We are producing one season wonders- no long term investment, no long term payoff.

 

[Robbo]

This thread has many ideas running through it with a recurrent theme being pro bashing. On the surface some might suggest this may be a property of jealousy surfacing or whatever, but the harsh reality is somewhat different but I don't really want this distasteful aspect of our paintball scene to become the focal point for this thread.

Syd is right in some respects to flag up the negativity but I think he loses perspective because he wants us (UK) to do a lot better and his enthusiasm ios getting in the way of objectivity.
He is one of the guys who is actually trying to do stuff over here and while I just plain gave up, he marches on.
He has an obvious financial advantage in taking this tack but this is academic because I don't care if he earns fifty million quid out of paintball, as long as paintball benefits, I don't give a sh!t.

Now, paintball, whether we like it or not, is not a social enterprise and will be steered not by the players but by the big boys, the industry.
And these guys will respond to market forces and adopt company philosophies when allocating funds outside of direct expenditure, ie sponsorship of teams and tournament support.

There are some very good ideas floating about here in this thread but it should not be forgotten, these new corporate guys aren't interested in a lot of these considerations you guys have ventured.
To really understand where our sport is going, we really need to try and think like they do when confronted with a balance sheet that indicates falling revenues and a very real need to restructure.
When we begin to factor this in, along with the insanity of team investment (in terms of bang for your buck) we then begin to unravel the possible direction they may take.

A lot of people will automatically then assume that same buck they have stripped away from the tournament scene (if in fact they do this) will then be directed toward the rec scene but this thinking has to be justified outside of merely 'wanting it to be this way'.
I'm afraid old firm jealousies of the tourney scene or whatever ain't gonna cut much mustard with these new type guys and just because a lot of people out there would like to witness millions of dollars then being fed over to the rec scene at the expense of the tourney scene, I'm afraid it doesn't follow unless that strategy makes hard financial sense.

I mean, doesn't it make more sense to perhaps put that saved money into advertising in mags and more direct forms of exposure ?

I have been talking to quite a few big industry guys of late and I can tell ya, things will change, it's just a case of how much and its associated time-line.

Still, the floor is open to you guys again as to where you think any saved monies might go, if in fact they redirect it.

One last thing, there will always be a tournmnat scene, and there will always be a pro scene, that ain't gonna change but maybes these new financial imperatives will change the face of it all and perhaps this will go some way in weeding out the crap we have accumulated masquerading as our top sportsmen.

 

[SteveD]

I have to confess that I did not read every post. However, of the 5/8ths of the pages I did read, I saw little or no mention of the following:

Kee purchased two distressed companies. K2 is selling their paintball business because it was negatively impacting their overall picture.

When people sell something, they cast it in its best light. When others buy something, they are supposed to do due diligence - but that can be pretty difficult (even with high-powered attorneys and accountants) when it comes to an industry as obscure and as deliberately confusing as paintball. (In support of this contention, I have it on good authority that in at least one major buyout, the books are STILL being analyzed...)

What you've got is a situation where major money is being spent on purchases for which the return is not certain. I personally have to believe that those purchases were based on numbers that were, shall we say, 'optomistic' - and not based at all on the reality of the current lack of growth.

I also believe that those purchasers will be incapable of figuring out what needs to be done in order to recover and that this will lead, in the relative near-term, to their finally realizing that they've pissed money down the drain and will look for a way to get out gracefully.

Three to five years, during which time any remaining serious manufacturing will have moved to Asia and the pressures on margins will be so great that startups will be nigh on impossible (unless they too can bring serious dollars to bear). The only saving grace is that by that time, many of the initial patents will have almost run their course...

To translate - within five years the bottom is going to fall out of the fiction that paintball is a moneymaker.