Pro players in lower divisions

[Beaker]

Anyway - let's agree to disagree - you are clearly closely affiliated with one of the teams that avail themselves of the option,
Nick

If he's who I think he is - he isn't.

Some people might just disagree Nick

Personally I agree with Shamu that we use the balancing system like the US, and agree with you that that classification works 1-to-1 with the US. That way you can have a guest, but it doesn't become overbearing.

 

[cocik]

I think you are missing my point - still.

Anyway - let's agree to disagree

Nick

Fair enough, I agree with that

 

[Bolter]

Lets group e-hug.

 

[Baca Loco]

Aight, kids, I'll settle this for y'all now. (No need to thank me. Why change now?)
Nick is of course correct that the integrity of the game as sport demands that much more stringent rules about player movement are introduced at some point. However, it matters a lot more at the highest levels than it does lower down. (Discounting the arguments about fairness and the so-called level playing field simply because until the players themselves object there is little motivation for the MS to consider changing the status quo.)

Guys like cocik and Bolter demonstrate that for now there is apparently little or no kind of consensus from the majority of players to see this happen beyond the current regs so it won't.

Until either the players insist or the league has a reason to enforce more rigorous rules right, principle and the good of the sport are not sufficient cause.

Given the current environment it's certainly a worthy subject of debate but your best bet, Nick, is to hope that either the NPPL or the PSP take a more decisive position as the MS is currently positioned to feel some pressure to react to them. So, who knows, you might be better off trying to convince a different group of peeps.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Given the current environment it's certainly a worthy subject of debate but your best bet, Nick, is to hope that either the NPPL or the PSP take a more decisive position as the MS is currently positioned to feel some pressure to react to them. So, who knows, you might be better off trying to convince a different group of peeps.

I know buddy - and the whole point of a lot of debate in here, it to set things in motion - get people thinking, and create a reaction down the line.... as well you know

Only thing that annoys me, is that people take so long to come around to my thinking all the time

- Like when I pushed for a players union to counter the power of the promoters in 2000
- or when I told Jerry Braun 7-man was the future for NPPL back in 2001
- or when I told Laurent 5-man with no flag and buzzers was the future in 2003

(and I'm still waiting for someone to re-invent the idea of dark playing surface, bunkers and boundries - and white shelled paint - for the sport to be better televised )

Things would be so much easier if y'all just did what I say

Nick

P.S. - Now is the time for all the bored people to dig up all the bad ideas I've had

 

[Fat-Frank]

This is about CPL, but it the same for SPL.
First of all i must say we`re having a blast playing against good teams, and that is whats making you better, and at this level thats why we are playing. In the 2005 season when XSV where coming with their 1. string every event, it was always fun to play, and we also made some good friends of the field.

Last year with the introduction of the CPL it started to get a little bit riddicolous. We are now playing a 5 man format, and teams has started to bring in 1,2, 3 and even 4 players. The roster lock last year where adjusted because of the "clash" with Huntington, and teams like Joy, Nexus, and XSV should`nt be hurt because of this.
What really happened was that a lot of the other teams brought in ringers trought the whole season.
The problem with this, is that it really f.... up the seeding system. The games that was supposed to be against the lowest ranked teams, suddenly was against 4 NXL players + 1 of the original team. (Not that it hurted us )

Like this year i have no problem playing against Philly AA since they now has bought a place in CPL ( but i think it is stupid that they are playing 3 events & the Dogs the last 2) because then you now they are in, and who you are up against. And they are the team that are supposed to bee there.

What i don`t like is that other teams, that in my opinion consist of enough good players, bring in different ringers.
One example is Moscow Phoenix which last year was a good team consisting ( if i remember right) of just Russian players. In Toulouse they brought in Lasoya, Humphrey and 1 other Trauma guy. That is 60% of the team! and leaves room only for 2 team players. How long will the existing players stand out with all the practice and zero playtime

Another one is Syndicate that has enough players too, and bring in Greenspan & Cole from Dynasty. Will the rest of the players accept it in the long run, or will it just demotivate them.

TonTon brings in three AA players, and claim that they are not enough players! Pardon my language, but bu..Sh.. How many TonTon teams did wee see this weekend? 4? 5? If you dont let people play on this level, they will never develop.

And the list goes on.

I understand that a lot of this is pressure from the sponsors, but in the long run, it will kill your team. Who wants to practice all year, and then be benched when the tournaments comes around, because suddenly there are 3 americans or whatever that just comes to play.

Another aspect is that we want this to be recognized as a sport.
As Nick & others has said before me, in which other sport do you see pro players playing for different teams than they are originally on?
NONE!

If Pro american teams(or others) want to play in Europe, you`re welcome to buy your spot for the whole team and play the complete season, or earn your way with your team thru the system.

This is my personal opinion.

Frank #21
Oslo Menace

 

[psycho]

hk

Personally I think the more Pros the better, the better competition you play the more you learn and the better you become. Is the overall goal not to win, no matter who play?? Be it Russian Legion, or a CPL with 2 pro guests.. At least this gives you an opportunity to measure yourself against some of the best players in the world, you should be grateful.. Imagine if no more pros came over for the rest of the year, not a single one. Now that would suck.... No one is forcing you to have guests on your own team, if you dont agree with it fair enough, quit moaning, go beat the teams that have Pro guests. Now that would be something to gain respect!!

Only my 2 pence!!

 

[Lovetone]

No one is forcing you to have guests on your own team, if you dont agree with it fair enough, quit moaning, go beat the teams that have Pro guests. Now that would be something to gain respect!!

Only my 2 pence!!

Certainly more respect than crying more on the net...

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

quit moaning, go beat the teams that have Pro guests. Now that would be something to gain respect!!

Hahahahahaha

This is so typical of paintball - people think I am "moaning"

I fail to understand that people cannot see this is a very principle and political debate, about where our sport is going in Europe.

It is NOT about whether you win or loose this or that particular event - but whether we want real teams competing, or teams filled with hired guns with no real affiliation with the team organisation.

It's about what we want our sport to reward - and not.

I have no need to "meassure" my players against the best in the world - I know exactly where they are in that context at any point in time... and as paintball is supposed to be a team sport, I would like it to be about creating good teams - not sucking ass and then bringing in players on loan to override lack of quality within the team.

We need to decide if we want the MS to be a sport or a showcase.... and if you prefer it to be a showcase, fine by me - but then don't call it a sport

Nick

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

Personally I think the more Pros the better, the better competition you play the more you learn and the better you become. Is the overall goal not to win, no matter who play?? Be it Russian Legion, or a CPL with 2 pro guests.. At least this gives you an opportunity to measure yourself against some of the best players in the world, you should be grateful.. Imagine if no more pros came over for the rest of the year, not a single one. Now that would suck.... No one is forcing you to have guests on your own team, if you dont agree with it fair enough, quit moaning, go beat the teams that have Pro guests. Now that would be something to gain respect!!

Only my 2 pence!!

I´m sorry but that just sounds ridicilous!!!

First off, you say the more pros the better - sure (and I reckon you refer to US pros here right?)! But why should they have to avoid working their way up the system OR simply buy their way in, like every other EUROPEAN team has to?

Secondly - gives you the opportunity to measure yourself against the best players in the world? Like what DA F***?! Go to the US and do some practise there.... Go to a try-out.... Find a US pro-clinic somewhere in Europe! But please do not use serious and competetive events such as millennium to "measure yourself", these events you go play teams in your division and you battle it out on the field, fight for those top spots that means you get to move up a division - it´s not a matter of "Uuuuuh I shot Ollie Lang!"! Honestly - if that is what the millennium is to most you playing it, then we are in bad shape!

Honestly - as the system is now, it actually only have advantages for players outside of Europe - in all fairness I simply want to work in favour of rules applying to everyone, that be europeans/americans or who else would want to play these millennium events!