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Raffles

Raffles

Going....going....not quite dead yet...
Jun 21, 2004
2,766
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63
57
oldham - lancs
Actually, looking at that picture of Robbo...

"Robbo and Todd Martinez - seperated at birth?" or "just how well does Robbo 'know' Mrs Martinez?" ;).
 
Russell Smith

Russell Smith

The Paintball Association
Jul 7, 2001
1,507
0
0
The Tea Van!!
www.thepaintballassociation.org.uk
Robbo said:
Russ - I read your first post in this thread and then I re-read it to make sure of what I was reading, both the lines themselves and between them.
And in the end you made it easy for me because there is a saying in common usage and it's, 'the bottom line'.
Basically it refers to the last line; in other words, the last line has the real meaning and in your case, your last line contextualizes that post to nothing more than a promo vehicle for the PA.
And please don't go all off in a tizzy suggesting I am biased against the PA coz if you read my posts on here over the years, I am apparently biased against the NPPL, PSP, Millennium and Lord knows who else; basically I will comment, good or bad, on all of them and I have upset all of them in the past as you well know.

Now we have that little point out of the way I can continue...
Russ, I got nothing against you or the PA but when you come on P8nt and post and I see something contentious or misleading, I am gonna answer it, no matter who you are !

The PA has a history of what looks like martyring themselves, it is a perennial accusation that you face and your initial post in this thread does little to change people's opinion.
Why do you keep going on about other people who have allegedly disagreed with you guys or as you imply, worked against you?
FFS get over it mate, move on, ignore them, do what you think you gotta do and don’t keep going on about them because it looks as though you are using them as an excuse for reasons why you haven't grown as you'd like.

If you need a working example, look at Billy and Adam, they have more cr@p talked about them than anybody I know, a lot of it untrue; do they go crying on boards like these moaning about what other people say?
Do they sh!t, they get on with things, make more money than God and are extremely powerful people in the industry; take a leaf out of their book Russ, stop moaning about people who you say are against you and get on with minding your business.

You also need to prioritize and try and grab some humility from somewhere; you, nor the PA are gonna lead the Paintball world into the paradise beyond no matter what you think. Your recent post whereby you implied that if UK players clicked on an option on this board they could then change the fate of world paintball was ridiculous mate, it was a plain lie and wholly misleading to the people you targeted.

If you wanna evolve then target the correct priority, and for you guys, it's not about creating socialist enterprises and hoping you are gonna create a bottom - up initiative, this is a pipe-dream mate and is only entertained by idealists and idiots or combinations thereof.
I’m all for giving the players and teams more say but we can’t lose sight of the real dynamics of our sport, it’s naive to go down this road where you give players false impressions.
Your first priority is to align yourself with the Millennium, like it or not, this is what you have to do; if you choose to go maverick then you will just continue the path you are now on, which is going exactly where Russ?
Where has the PA really gone in the last few years?
I have always said that change (necessary change) will come from a top-down initiative, nothing has changed mate, it can only happen this way no matter how many red books are thrown across the pages of this forum.
Money and real power talk Russ and you ain't got enough of either (no disrespect mate, just an observation).

As I have hinted before, for you to get anywhere near the position you so crave, you have to play the game of politics and you should be seeking opinion and agreement not from the players but from the industry and this has always been your (the PA's) problem, negotiating the art of people politics.
Russ, you been in this game long enough to know, 'it's not what you know but who', this sounds like a pretty facile remark but it hides a more profound state of affairs when you ponder its real significance in our sport.
From what I hear, you guys run a pretty good series, no better, no worse than Wendy’s or Sid’s.
I will say however, there is slightly more controversy surrounding teams and the way they believe they have been treated than other leagues but hey, none of us are perfect.

When you guys threatened to start suing teams was an indicator of how you may have lost sight of what it’s all about and your recent post where you erroneously empower the paintball populace like I mentioned before don’t do you guys any favours at all.
It all smacks of arrogance and detachment and that’s the last thing you need when trying to run a league and become a big player.
I think the base ideas you have are pretty good but as I have said to you and others before, it’s the way you go about them mate.
Look for friends and cultivate them rather than make a habit of continually going on about your perceived enemies.
Click to expand...



Pete,
If you think the post was a promo exercise either on the line between the line or as you say the bottom line, you are wrong, if you read the post as one that is proud of what the PA is attempting to do for paintball well you would have been correct because I am correct in that we are not like the other bull**** merchants who all talk a good game and in actuality do sod all for the progression of what we play.
I don’t think you are anti PA but in this case you are ill-informed, the people behind the PA are the most genuine people I know who unlike most others are not after a profit margin to buy a new house with, don’t get me wrong I don’t think for one second that a profit is wrong (I run my own business and pay out wages to ten people a week so I appreciate a profit margin) but please don’t mistake comments on the forums as bickering because others don’t throw rose petals in my path.
Many, people do what they think is a good thing for paintball and everyone of them will have their share of detractors for no other reason that they are there – take Steve Bull without Steve we may not even still be playing the game in this country without him but he has more than his share of unfair comments on these very boards from players who have second hand twisted information so I count that as good and decent company.
However you rightly say I should get over it, and that mate is the truth for sure, I do have a problem with some people but as you know the forums are not the place for that, and also if I could behave like the Billy and Adam I would not be the person I am, and I like me.
As for the tick a box option, well if that had gone the other way, we would have found out if I could have persuaded anyone, but the main point of the post was to make people aware of something that will introduce gun cheats back into the game after we had begun the process of eradicating a major concern.
I don’t take onboard your point about change will happen from the top down, dictatorships happen from the top down and I want no part of any of them, if someone is doing the wrong thing in paintball (as I see it of course) why would I want to align myself with them.
The Millenniums if I may use them as an example have milked the players of Europe dry for years (and I like most of the guys behind the scenes) for what, if you discount the French events very little public interest has ever been generated.
The players have always paid over the odds for what they get and I am not even counting the extra costs on top of the entry fees, but that in fact is completely academic. Whatever they want to charge they will get teams to play because they promote the perception a lot better than the actual event, something we have yet to learn.
About people politics, Hmmm, I do see your point and sadly have to concede you are correct it is not one of our strong points at this moment but learning to talk b0llocks to people you want to trust and getting told crap in return is something that is a bitter pill to swallow. But it is something we are learning.
The PA has recently began a partnership with a company they may help in the promotion of paintball and within a few days Syd from the SWPL and the Millenniums and others had been in touch with them telling them don’t work with the PA work with us. When I first was informed about the contacts that had been made I was to be honest very pissed, but after I had calmed down I just thought to myself feck ‘em, if we are doing things the right way we will keep our contacts no matter what anyone else says to them. (still think it’s a ****ty thing to do though)
You advise us to get help from the industry; I assure you we have tried but help from the industry is usually soft goods to a value and a load of bollocks on what they think you should be doing to get more teams to your events, advice we don’t need, we already know what we have to do to attain what we want and we do not need more teams to do it.
I along with the rest of the senior PA staff refuse to be beholding to anyone who is only looking at there own ability to make profit from our event, God bless Planet a company who supports our endeavour that if we eventually get to fruition, we believe will benefit everyone.
I have had lengthy talks with Ledz who in his own unique way has given me lots of advice and as you know when he gives you advice, its never bad and he told me take small steps and not try big leaps and I think you are giving me the same, so thank you.
But Pete, when I believe what we want to do WILL help EVERYONE including all the other organisers, small steps are not very appealing.


Russ
 
Raffles

Raffles

Going....going....not quite dead yet...
Jun 21, 2004
2,766
1
63
57
oldham - lancs
Why do I get the feeling that this thread is about to turn in to yet more 'politics' :rolleyes:.

Is it time to close it?
 
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