Second hand prices (looking for first marker) - mini and axe

[matj]

That would be brilliant if its in test. Thank you for the kind offer, I greatly appreciate it. I would be more than happy to pay p&p

 

[Fizzgig78]

+ I still have some bits listed in the free to a newbie thread if you want anything just post up

 

[matj]

I have browsed the Newbie thread before. I couldn't see anything still available?

Regardless of that though if Donk's spare tank is within test then I think that should count as a 'free to a newbie' item. I'm definitely not rich by any means but i dont mind working towards getting myself completely kitted out. If there are such generous and lovely people that want to give out items then i genuinely believe as many as possible should be able to benefit. For that reason I wouldn't ask for anything more

give me a few years and i hope to return the favour for someone that needs it too!

Thank you for the suggestion though

 

[Bolter]

The mini is a great gun. The gen 3 gen 2 stuff that people keep going on about is purely made up by us players though. If we stuck a new label on the mini every time KEE changed some small thing, we'd be on Gen 14 or something like that. If you do get a mini, and it doesnt work quite right, you can send it off to KEE and they can put any newer items/parts in the gun if its needed.

That said, if you liked the mini, you will love the AXE. Its just like the mini, but works even smoother, better trigger, feels nicer in a slightly longer platform etc.

As for upgrades, you will mostly be spending your money on things that make the gun look pretty, rather than it actually upgrading it. Think about it, all the gun has to do is shoot 10bps, which compared to the rules of old, is very easy to do. A new bolt, board, feedneck etc wont make it shoot 10bps any faster or smoother or better. So mostly, its an aesthetic upgrade. They work really good with stock parts.

 

[matj]

After conversations with the mrs it looks like it will be a couple mini's for us.

Although I think I would prefer the axe buying a couple mini's would be slightly more cost effective and means we can both get going sooner rather than waiting. The saved dough can be spent on some playing and the other minor bits of gear.

If I'm honest I can't see me upgrading the minis by any insane amount. Redline etc would be nice...but they will be first markers. My priority is learning about the marker, how it functions, and how to fix and maintain it. I'm sure I will make adjustments in the future...but not for a long time.

Has anyone got anything had to say about the Halo Too? Considering getting a couple of them for us.

Thank you for your input bolter. I really appreciate it. If I had to send it off to KEE would second hand be an issue and what would it lost cost me?

Thank you all for your help its brilliant to find a community so happy to provide help and advice. I'm glad I joined the forums for a browse... I haven't left since!

 

[Bolter]

Thank you for your input bolter. I really appreciate it. If I had to send it off to KEE would second hand be an issue and what would it lost cost me?

Thank you all for your help its brilliant to find a community so happy to provide help and advice. I'm glad I joined the forums for a browse... I haven't left since!

Not an issue, especially if you pay them but ask them if you call. You will probably be asked to call one of the many KEE retailers, and to go through them. LiPS, Just Paintball etc are very good and will help you out.

If the guns work though, there is no need to change anything bro.

 

[matj]

Not an issue, especially if you pay them but ask them if you call. You will probably be asked to call one of the many KEE retailers, and to go through them. LiPS, Just Paintball etc are very good and will help you out.

If the guns work though, there is no need to change anything bro.

That all sounds fine. I would prefer a marker i can get support for and i don't mind paying a little for it. There is nothing worse than no support

I have no intention of changing anything if it works well. Tinkering can do as much damage as good. especially when your new to owning your own! ...A past hobby springs to mind...nitro powered RC cars... haha

thank you for all the help

 

[Tom]

You have your head screwed on based on the way you are going about putting together your gear

With goggles second hand would be fine, but factor in a new lens
However by going new you don't get someone else's sweat left in the foam, ;-)

For a 3000psi steel or aluminium cylinder there is no major disadvantage against a 4500psi fibre cylinder *
I would usualy advise a new starter to buy a new 3000psi cylinder in the region of £30 against. 4500psi fibre around £150 unless funds were plenty. But the offer of an in date cylinder for just postage is not to be sniffed at
But it would be worth comparing the remaining life to the postage cost

* at most sites and many events the available fills are often 3000psi max, and unless you have an air hungry marker or spray a lot of paint then you should not run out of air in standard games. If at an event with non stop play you will still find yourself needing to naturally stop at some point and can refill then

Unless you have access to a test station with a low test price and no need to post then it is not financially viable to retest steel/aluminum cylinders
A tip to look out for savings on a fibre cylinder is to check the born date and first test due. Unless you get brand new stock that just left the factory you won't get the full 5 years to the first test and will lose a month or two. Sometimes a retailer will discount a cylinder that has sat in stock. If you get to a retailers warehouse shop, or at a stall at an event check the dates, if it covers the periods you play then a cylinders life could last you one more or one less season, if its older stock then you may get away with asking for a discount

 

[matj]

I have to admit that me not wanting second hand masks is a combination of wanting to ensure they are in perfect condition and avoiding sweaty foam. I also need to try them on so i might as well buy a pair while im there. I think it would be unreasonable of myself to walk into a shop, spend half an hour trying them on and then undercut them. If i don't buy from them then next time they wont be there for me to try anything on. I plan to get this sorted within the next few weeks as I have started buying everything now.

The HPA carbon fibre tanks have always confused me if im honest. Throughout everything i have read i really don't understand why everyone buys them over steel/aluminium. If there a particular reason why they are favoured by regular players or is it simply the weight? I can understand it if weight is literally the only reason, but at that price i would guess there is more to it

I have to admit that aluminium/steel tanks will be what I will use for the time being. Considering i need two (one for me, one for the Mrs) it would require a bank loan for carbon fibre

I will bear the tip in mind when the day comes that I decide to invest in one.

Thank you for all of your help

 

[Tom]

The HPA carbon fibre tanks have always confused me if im honest. Throughout everything i have read i really don't understand why everyone buys them over steel/aluminium. If there a particular reason why they are favoured by regular players or is it simply the weight? I can understand it if weight is literally the only reason, but at that price i would guess there is more to it

There are a few reasons for carbon fibre cylinders over steel/aluminium. However a number of the reasons are forgotten by people and they just by fibre because its 'better', but may not be VFM for them

The 'standard' 4500psi cylinder is bigger then the 'standard' 3000psi, which gives a bit more capacity if filled to 3000 psi or quite a lot at 4500psi

Weight itself is not much of an advantage. Balance is most important
If your marker is balanced then you can hold it ready for longer, weight does affect how long something can be held but the difference in cylinder weight won't affect all but the most 'slight' weaker person

Fibre cylinders come in many shapes and sizes, in addition to the way this affects balance those can physically fit an individual by choosing the right style of cylinder to hold the marker in the right place, with your arm ergonomically correct and the cylinder dropping into your shoulder

With regard to the cylinder in your shoulder 3000psi cylinders have flat bases, 4500psi ones have round bases
(This allows a 3000psi to be stood up, but flat is weaker in physics) to a paintballer the 4500psi circular base rolls in your shoulder

As 4500psi cylinders come in all sizes you can end up smaller then the standard size 3000psi cylinder. If 4500psi fills are available then this usually balances with air capacity. This can mean the fibre player is at a capacity disadvantage, but if the cylinder is right for them hen they have an ergonomic advantage and as long as their is enough air for the amount of paint/time they play between fills the capacity is irrelevant
As well as cylinder size for ergonomics the player should also consider an adjustable ASA on a rail. This lets them slide the cylinder slightly forward or backwards to get the position just right
Other things to consider are the old school 'drop forward' which changed position of the ASA and cylinder, and the 'kick up'
Kick ups are currently made by gommie (on this forum as gommie404) they are a wedge that sits between the grip and ASA angling the cylinder upwards slightly giving a better position and making it easier to roll the marker in front of your face to look at what you are shooting
There are also some players that out their kick ups backwards to make a 'kick down'

With capacity as long as you don't run out in game then you have enough.
But you then need to fill more often if you have less capacity. A few years back events didn't always have many fill stations.
Nowadays you should see a lot of people trying to fill at once only at certain times
Be wise and you can avoid the queues. Prepare to fill as soon as fill stations open in the morning, and position yourself to watch the queue. The queue tends to be longest when people realise it is open, and again just before game on. Top up whenever you pass a fill station
When there are both 3000psi and 4500psi fill stations you will tend to see the 4500 has the longest queue. That means 3000psi players can jump straight in. It also means 4500psi players can ignore the queue and get a part fill straight away
(This does not work the other way - it is technically possible to fill a 3000psi from a 4500psi source and stopping but you are asking for a mistake and blowing your burst disc, plus you should get turned away)

For sizes there are probably 3 general sizes of 3000psi cylinder
About 12 or 13ci. These are pretty small and won't last long for the average player
I use one but for my pistol rather than 12gram co2, or for my pump. On occasion I have used it on other markers but only for short low capacity / fun games. These still cost about the same as a standard cylinder - but also may not need retesting at 5 years

There is the standard 3000psi cylinder. If you were to have one retested every 5 years it would last forever, provided you had tests at the right price this would become cost effective, but not realy worth the effort.

There are jumbo 3000psi cylinders, but the price goes up and these are heavy and bulky

4500psi cylinders come in many shapes and sizes.
There is one type that cannot be retested after 5 years made by Stako. These realy are ultralight but they cost the same as other 4500psi cylinders so you need to be serious about weight saving to spend that much
A similar ultralightweight cylinder is now available that can be retested
The maximum life of a fibre cylinder is 15 years
Because of the cylinder cost it is viable to retest to get its full life (factor a lifetime cost of about £200 - purchase plus 2 retests)

Fibre cylinders can be damaged and then can no longer be used. The advantage a steel cylinder had is that it can be bashed around for its life and survive. A fibre cylinder will survive being bashed around but it's coating will be damaged. The only way to know it is safe will be an early retest.
If using a fibre cylinder you should use a cover to protect the coating

They can also be commonly bought without a regulator, though you ought to choose the regulator and have it fitted by the supplier
(Sometimes people think the cylinder is at a bargain price until it arrives with no regulator)

Choosing your own regulator gets you the options of low, mid or high pressure output. (The majority of markers require HP even if they operate internally at low pressure)
But your own choice can affect 'refresh rates' which is how quickly the regulator gets back up to pressure if you are firing rapidly, and other options such as a user rebuildable regulator, ones that can be reset to Lp/Mp/hp and many other options / qualities

If you intend to travel to the us then you cannot use a European cylinder, and vice versa. But you can get cylinders marked with multiple international standards (eg both Dot and pi) which allow them to be used on either side if the Atlantic.
If you intend to do this then also ensure that when the cylinder & regulator are assembled that they are not loctited together. No loctited enables you to disassemble for customs inspection and to prove it is not pressurized for flight
This can also be arranged when hydro tested (though technically a us site could refuse a uk retest even though the cylinder is marked internationally)