Second hand prices (looking for first marker) - mini and axe

[Gaz #68]

DONT get lube anywhere near the FILL NIPPLE on the bottle. That is where the extremely high pressure air goes in and this will cause the lube/oil to ignite. The threads on the top of the regulator that screw onto the marker (where the oring is) can be lightly lubed to aid in inserting and removing bottles. I have a steel tank and have lightly lubed the oring and threads to aid fitting and removing from my sterling pump (as it had no on/off until I fitted one) and never had an issue. Its all perfectly safe as long as you stay away from the fill nipple. I would strongly advise getting a fill nipple cover (couple of quid) to help keep crap out and prolong the life of your bottle.

 

[Gaz #68]

This may be the TechPB video you have watched

 

[matj]

That's the video...your spot on the money there.

I'm VERY health and safety conscious due to past mishaps with medication i was on. I always read and research everything that could be a hazard and the HPA tanks were no exception. I appreciate your input and thank you for also making it categorically clear.

I have already ordered nipple covers (and I haven't even ordered tanks yet! ) as i think its essential that nothing makes its way into the tank themselves. I will put a little lube on the thread and o ring but will go to all lengths possible to avoid it getting near the nipple!

One thing I spent ages looking for was a video of a burst disk activating on a tank too. So if it did happen A) I would know what was going on, and B) I won't have a heart failure whilst dropping onto the floor into a fetal position chanting as many prayers as I can conjure at the time (slight exaggeration...not by much though )

Thank you for your input. The Mini is now here...just need to get the rest sorted! hopper is on its way, tank need to be ordered and a visit to the local PB shop for a mask before any of it gets put together! The Mrs needs to catch up!

 

[Bolter]

That's the video...your spot on the money there.

I'm VERY health and safety conscious due to past mishaps with medication i was on. I always read and research everything that could be a hazard and the HPA tanks were no exception. I appreciate your input and thank you for also making it categorically clear.

I have already ordered nipple covers (and I haven't even ordered tanks yet! ) as i think its essential that nothing makes its way into the tank themselves. I will put a little lube on the thread and o ring but will go to all lengths possible to avoid it getting near the nipple!

One thing I spent ages looking for was a video of a burst disk activating on a tank too. So if it did happen A) I would know what was going on, and B) I won't have a heart failure whilst dropping onto the floor into a fetal position chanting as many prayers as I can conjure at the time (slight exaggeration...not by much though )

Thank you for your input. The Mini is now here...just need to get the rest sorted! hopper is on its way, tank need to be ordered and a visit to the local PB shop for a mask before any of it gets put together! The Mrs needs to catch up!

While many do, lubing the tank threads or the oring is not necessary at all. They are designed to screw together. If it is not locating the thread properly, or is stiff to wind in or out, I would suggest either the threads have crap in them (lube plus whatever sticks to lube) in which case clean it with an old toothbrush and a rag, and/or you have threaded the thread (which is unlikely) in which case, buy new stuff.

IMO and Im no safety nut, putting any lube or oil or grease near anything to do with your air system is not a good idea.

However, throwing yourself Superman style at the floor with said high pressure explosive devise IS ok, as long as you shoot the other guy in the face first!

 

[matj]

Superman style....I much prefer your choice of wording....

I think you have slightly miss judged my current playing ability though...I'm used to 98's that hit the target 10% of the time...I may need to improve my skills to suit my new 'toy' e.g. actually be on target for every shot

I think some trial and error will be the best option. If i can get away without then I will happily avoid using any grease etc which should be fine as long as i line the threads up carefully when putting the tank on.

Although second hand the mini has been very well maintained. I removed the bolt to check earlier on today to make sure its all in good order and it looks like it has just come out from the factory if I'm honest. well greased in all the right places too. As it has been well treated i would imagine the threads etc will have been well looked after as well (they look fine but the true test will be putting a tank on it)

Thank you for all the info

 

[Tom]

Check out the UKPSF HPA1 document with general & safety information on cylinders.
http://www.oaklandsfestival.host56.com/web_documents/air information.pdf

If you do fill at a scuba shop do make sure the operator realises what they are doing. They should know much more about air safety then the average paintballer, but there have been cases of them mixing up 300BAR and 3000psi.
Paintballer walks in with a 3000psi cylinder to fill, scuba Saturday staff see '3' and fill to 300 BAR. Then the burst disc goes bang.

I'm not sure if there is a video up on a burst disc blowing, but you can be forgiven for cowering in fear.
Back a few years ago when there were the flash fill explosion incidents I was at NvS shortly after one of the incidents. A burst disc was blown by someone filling a 3000psi at the 4500psi station. The queue instantly scattered!

The chances of incidents occuring are now low. But this is because of awareness and people having learned the lessons.

 

[matj]

Tech PB covers it nicely. The guys outer Disk gives way which...I have to be honest...would be more than enough to make me launch my marker in a safe direction to let it get on with it.

Jump to 4:40 for the actual disk giving way. The rest is explanation.

I will double check everything with the scuba shop. I'll literally tell them when i walk in saying i need a refill for a 3000psi paintball tank as I will not be happy if it gets ruined

I'm glad air safety is widely known in PB now as its essential. I'm also glad there is such a wealth of knowledge and videos for those new to owning the equipment such as myself. In a way I'm glad i saw the video...but I'm also not as I know if i hear that sound i will still likely do a superman impression. Although...the chances of it happening are also slim...thankfully

 

[Donk]

First time I have got to a pc since weekend. That bottle is 04/2008 you can have it if u like, dint know if its worth retesting it has a pure energy reg on it

 

[matj]

Thank you for getting back to me Donk and don't worry about not getting to the Pc often, I live on my phone so I always have access otherwise I wouldn't have the time to get on the forum much either. The Pc always takes ages and having time to get on it is another thing entirely

As its out of test I think It would be best to get a couple of new bottles at £35 from one of the shops delivered. I really appreciate the offer but I don't know of anywhere near me that can retest and have no way of getting to them except public transport. The combined cost of the test and travel will likely cost the same as a brand new bottle.

I really do appreciate the offer though and thank you for checking for me

 

[Bertz]

There are a few reasons for carbon fibre cylinders over steel/aluminium. However a number of the reasons are forgotten by people and they just by fibre because its 'better', but may not be VFM for them

The 'standard' 4500psi cylinder is bigger then the 'standard' 3000psi, which gives a bit more capacity if filled to 3000 psi or quite a lot at 4500psi

Weight itself is not much of an advantage. Balance is most important
If your marker is balanced then you can hold it ready for longer, weight does affect how long something can be held but the difference in cylinder weight won't affect all but the most 'slight' weaker person

Fibre cylinders come in many shapes and sizes, in addition to the way this affects balance those can physically fit an individual by choosing the right style of cylinder to hold the marker in the right place, with your arm ergonomically correct and the cylinder dropping into your shoulder

With regard to the cylinder in your shoulder 3000psi cylinders have flat bases, 4500psi ones have round bases
(This allows a 3000psi to be stood up, but flat is weaker in physics) to a paintballer the 4500psi circular base rolls in your shoulder

As 4500psi cylinders come in all sizes you can end up smaller then the standard size 3000psi cylinder. If 4500psi fills are available then this usually balances with air capacity. This can mean the fibre player is at a capacity disadvantage, but if the cylinder is right for them hen they have an ergonomic advantage and as long as their is enough air for the amount of paint/time they play between fills the capacity is irrelevant
As well as cylinder size for ergonomics the player should also consider an adjustable ASA on a rail. This lets them slide the cylinder slightly forward or backwards to get the position just right
Other things to consider are the old school 'drop forward' which changed position of the ASA and cylinder, and the 'kick up'
Kick ups are currently made by gommie (on this forum as gommie404) they are a wedge that sits between the grip and ASA angling the cylinder upwards slightly giving a better position and making it easier to roll the marker in front of your face to look at what you are shooting
There are also some players that out their kick ups backwards to make a 'kick down'

With capacity as long as you don't run out in game then you have enough.
But you then need to fill more often if you have less capacity. A few years back events didn't always have many fill stations.
Nowadays you should see a lot of people trying to fill at once only at certain times
Be wise and you can avoid the queues. Prepare to fill as soon as fill stations open in the morning, and position yourself to watch the queue. The queue tends to be longest when people realise it is open, and again just before game on. Top up whenever you pass a fill station
When there are both 3000psi and 4500psi fill stations you will tend to see the 4500 has the longest queue. That means 3000psi players can jump straight in. It also means 4500psi players can ignore the queue and get a part fill straight away
(This does not work the other way - it is technically possible to fill a 3000psi from a 4500psi source and stopping but you are asking for a mistake and blowing your burst disc, plus you should get turned away)

For sizes there are probably 3 general sizes of 3000psi cylinder
About 12 or 13ci. These are pretty small and won't last long for the average player
I use one but for my pistol rather than 12gram co2, or for my pump. On occasion I have used it on other markers but only for short low capacity / fun games. These still cost about the same as a standard cylinder - but also may not need retesting at 5 years

There is the standard 3000psi cylinder. If you were to have one retested every 5 years it would last forever, provided you had tests at the right price this would become cost effective, but not realy worth the effort.

There are jumbo 3000psi cylinders, but the price goes up and these are heavy and bulky

4500psi cylinders come in many shapes and sizes.
There is one type that cannot be retested after 5 years made by Stako. These realy are ultralight but they cost the same as other 4500psi cylinders so you need to be serious about weight saving to spend that much
A similar ultralightweight cylinder is now available that can be retested
The maximum life of a fibre cylinder is 15 years
Because of the cylinder cost it is viable to retest to get its full life (factor a lifetime cost of about £200 - purchase plus 2 retests)

Fibre cylinders can be damaged and then can no longer be used. The advantage a steel cylinder had is that it can be bashed around for its life and survive. A fibre cylinder will survive being bashed around but it's coating will be damaged. The only way to know it is safe will be an early retest.
If using a fibre cylinder you should use a cover to protect the coating

They can also be commonly bought without a regulator, though you ought to choose the regulator and have it fitted by the supplier
(Sometimes people think the cylinder is at a bargain price until it arrives with no regulator)

Choosing your own regulator gets you the options of low, mid or high pressure output. (The majority of markers require HP even if they operate internally at low pressure)
But your own choice can affect 'refresh rates' which is how quickly the regulator gets back up to pressure if you are firing rapidly, and other options such as a user rebuildable regulator, ones that can be reset to Lp/Mp/hp and many other options / qualities

If you intend to travel to the us then you cannot use a European cylinder, and vice versa. But you can get cylinders marked with multiple international standards (eg both Dot and pi) which allow them to be used on either side if the Atlantic.
If you intend to do this then also ensure that when the cylinder & regulator are assembled that they are not loctited together. No loctited enables you to disassemble for customs inspection and to prove it is not pressurized for flight
This can also be arranged when hydro tested (though technically a us site could refuse a uk retest even though the cylinder is marked internationally)

Sorry to dig up an old thread but it's the only info I can find , interested in buying some 13ci guerrilla air tanks that have dates 2010 & 2011 stamped in them obvious these are 5 yrs old but the seller says there is no other date on the bottle.

So do they need a hydro test as I've read some don't because their so small , how true is this .

To be honest the gi are only £32 new from JP so can't see it's worth justifying paying for a re test
Thanks