Are we just a bunch of saps or do we have any power?

[Sid Sidgwick]

I have to admit for bang for buck the CPPS midland show was bloody brilliant we (Mad Monks) loved it.

 

[Biscuit]

,

'the players were asking for the tournaments to be sorted out, we got together, gave them the best supported and best prize packaged event [outside of the MS] the UK has seen for many a year and the very same people who had been asking for help didn't turn up when it was their turn to show commitment, if they don't want the Fed Cup then why should we take all the time and money to put it on [none of us got paid for that] ??..

.

if i remember correctly there was 4-5 events that month 2 before the fed 1 being run by the cpps 2 weeks before the event so not all the blame is on the players ,we can afford so much not every event ,as has been said before the industryi;e promoters need to sort them selves out,have a proper calendar and stick too it.lets just say certain events where moved to the weeks before it even though they where originally scheduled for after the fed cup.so mate you got done over by the industry

 

[jitsuwarrior]

Biscuit,

I can partially agree with what you are saying bit now the dilemma rises. If you are a non sanctioned event still attracting teams and then you have the fed approved events + speedball in the woods, then you are starting to find what you ate saying is true, too many tourneys in too short a period. Now comes the crux of the problem as I see it, the masters and the cpps appear to be in direct competition with each other, whether deliberate or not I can not say. If somehow these two tourneys could be merged or a mini league against their equivalent divs could be set up, then I think we would be at a turning point in paintball, I personally believe the other tourneys throughout the country are not threatened by these two, but could easily start working together as organisers to find a way to encourage regional tourneys leading into national. In my opinion the fed needs to decide how to get the organisers together to make this happen, when or if this happens then I believe we will have the building blocks for clubs/ academies and a better future for uk paintball. There are obviously sponsorship, packages, affiliations etc that would need sorting but I think the players in this country want something for nothing, I know not everyone is like this as Sid from the monks has proven, but others would love free or cheap kit without doing out for it.

The problem is as far as I see it, is that the organisers make a living out of these tourneys so cutting tourneys is like cutting their wages? Unless the pot of gold is divided as a salary between them (is this viable between them?)

This is only my opinion and not that of any teams or organisers.

 

[Biscuit]

jitsu this was tried by the feds with wendy at the masters but did not work .
as you say it is their lively hood,so it is cut throat full stop
if this side of the industry is not sorted then we are stuffed.
we need to get too a point where there is only one promoter in the north and one in the south, unfortunate too say but somebody has to go
the people that can do that are the teams but also the industry by pulling trade support,
by making an event unviable then maybe we get what we need
as i keep saying the industry are the only ones who can really push this through
by this i mean if they support a team then they tell the team that they can only play in certain leagues or events with their gear as part of their support
then a proper structured calendar can be made with one governing body end of

 

[Ronniepimpstar]

Pete..

What's crazy here is I've been quite ignorant as to keeping up with the fed, but I'm quite close to a couple of people on the board. I thought to myself that the fed should have a player representation, problem is where are all the characters of the modern game and who would be the best player around to be the face and sit his arse on that seat.. Straight away Tommy Pemberton came to mind!! I had no idea he was at the table and my remarks would have been better educated if I had been aware.. Now I'm pretty speechless with not much argument at all..

We are saps!!!

 

[Robbo]

if i remember correctly there was 4-5 events that month 2 before the fed 1 being run by the cpps 2 weeks before the event so not all the blame is on the players ,we can afford so much not every event ,as has been said before the industry;e promoters need to sort them selves out,have a proper calendar and stick too it.lets just say certain events where moved to the weeks before it even though they where originally scheduled for after the fed cup.so mate you got done over by the industry

Biscuit, you are obviously entitled to your opinion .. as indeed were members of the Flat Earth Society .... if you are suggesting something that runs contra to what myself, Ledz and every other member of the Fed believe then it might do you well to have a longer think about what you post .....

I honestly wish you were right because it would mean an easy fix but it ain't, the problem we have is a lot more difficult to deal with and is most definitely player based not industry.

 

[Biscuit]

Robbo i understand what you and Ledz are saying.
now here comes the but
now if the feds had control of all the events with in the UK then we would not be seeing this problem as the events would be structured and would have a proper calendar ,which events would run too
when you have promoters ringing teams up and offering them large discounts to play their event instead of another you have a problem and believe me this goes on:tsk: as we were offered a big discount to play another event,let just say free entry.
now when i say the industry i am refering to the event side of things
not planet,dye or any of the vendors
now i will tell you what i mean when we played an event recently,3 of the teams in our div where event sponsered
at the start of the day that was not a problem,but when we started rolling regular teams to this event over,all of a sudden the marshalls started to get seriously picky,
like my barrels not touching the start gate and we are on about 1 to 2 inches yet i can look up field and nothing is being said to the other team.
game on and we have 6 marshalls on our side of the field etc etc
would you or would you not feel as though you can`t win
so why should my team or i commit to a league

this happens more than you thinknow look at the commitment to the cpps ,Rich is getting between 60-70 teams why.because teams don`t feel as though they are getting stiffed but he still supports certain teams this will lead to problemsall it takes is a few dodgy calls and hay presto we have problems and teams start to say knickers to this
that is the side of the industry that you guys need to sort ,if not teams will just keep jumping from ship to ship

always like to read your answers Robbo as you say we all have opinions,so never no hard feelings here

 

[Robbo]

Robbo i understand what you and Ledz are saying.
now here comes the but
now if the feds had control of all the events with in the UK then we would not be seeing this problem as the events would be structured and would have a proper calendar ,which events would run too
when you have promoters ringing teams up and offering them large discounts to play their event instead of another you have a problem and believe me this goes on:tsk: as we were offered a big discount to play another event,let just say free entry.
now when i say the industry i am refering to the event side of things
not planet,dye or any of the vendors
now i will tell you what i mean when we played an event recently,3 of the teams in our div where event sponsered
at the start of the day that was not a problem,but when we started rolling regular teams to this event over,all of a sudden the marshalls started to get seriously picky,
like my barrels not touching the start gate and we are on about 1 to 2 inches yet i can look up field and nothing is being said to the other team.
game on and we have 6 marshalls on our side of the field etc etc
would you or would you not feel as though you can`t win
so why should my team or i commit to a league

this happens more than you thinknow look at the commitment to the cpps ,Rich is getting between 60-70 teams why.because teams don`t feel as though they are getting stiffed but he still supports certain teams this will lead to problemsall it takes is a few dodgy calls and hay presto we have problems and teams start to say knickers to this
that is the side of the industry that you guys need to sort ,if not teams will just keep jumping from ship to ship

always like to read your answers Robbo as you say we all have opinions,so never no hard feelings here

Bisc, no problem re hard feelings mate, I like answering you because it means we have one more educated norverner after you've read my response

Most of what you write, we 100% agree on, I think it's the conclusions you draw where we differ .. and these conclusions are always gonna be an emergent property of our experience within our game, and of course our ability to reason.

We have had recently, ridiculous discount offers from one particular promoter as a last ditch attempt to stave off the inevitable withering on the vine and this only goes to destabilize the tourney scene as you suggest ... but this particular person has a history of that anyway and so it's gonna be a common factor.

As for your clarification of the 'industry' being categorized here as the promoters then you are right to say, 'we ended up stiffing ourselves' but I think I would have tended to differentiate between the promoters and people like Ledz and the rest of the Fed gang if only to better understand the dynamics of what's going on here.

The promoters are actually independent of the industry and is EXACTLY the reason why the Fed was created to try and bring them under one umbrella of accountability and protocol.
We can only achieve this if the player base had responded appropriately but they didn't which pretty much leaves the Fed holding its dick .. but ... we ain't gonna give up, not just yet anyway.
There are some of us on that board who will continue to work toward a better tournament environment for everybody, both player and promoter .. all we can do is keep plugging away and hopefully, the players will come on board ... and when that happens, we are on the way to getting back to where we were, and also deserve to be.

I agree in part, with some of your observations re reffing and its potential inherent bias .. but only partially ..... but let me tell you something here .. if ever a ref tried to dick me over then there is no way I'm gonna sit on it.. I'd be screaming blue murder, to the promoter, on these boards, whatever it took ... I'd write down names, circumstances whatever it took to publicise an outrage such as systematic bias of judging staff because that is what you are describing here ...the one thing these idiots don't like is being identified.

Name and shame mate, that's what I'd do ... and I tell ya something, I know Rich pretty well and the last thing he'd want is the reputation of employing biased judging staff .. it would kill his events overnight if that gained traction.

I won't block anything on this site unless I know for sure it's bollox and so if any judge did get up to anything, and I believed it to be a fair accusation, then post it and Rich will no doubt respond .. and when it's done in public like this ... there's no hiding place for anybody.

 

[basktm]

so in theory then robbo, in my "theoretical world" im a new player, i want to help the sport and support the fed.

What do you want me to do, its ok everyone saying its xyz's fault, but what do you want us to do ?? (as players) in a nut shell ??

 

[Robbo]

Bask, good question and I wish it was a question that was asked by a few more people but the real demographic for this isn't the new player at all, it's the traditional tourney player who's been around for a few years .. these are the guys who needed to step up to the plate ... as for your question?

I think it would have to be to keep up with what's going on in our sport via these forums and if there any more initiatives from the Fed, then support them .. we don't stand to gain from anything here directly and so you can trust the goals we adopt... we don't want your money, we want you to enjoy value for money but we cannot get you there unless you support our ideals and goals.

Apart from that .. not much else ....