Are we just a bunch of saps or do we have any power?

[Biscuit]

Robbo the incident never happened at the cpps and luckily Rich has got some of the best refs in the uk period
this happened at the masters ,which we have not played since.
none of the refs that day ref at the cpps so no problem
all we did that day was the more they bitched the more aggressive our play got especially when it was one of the masters sponsored teams
i even got asked by the promoter to go steady on a team,lets just say it didn,t happen
and the game lasted under 30 seconds with some extra luuuurrrvvvv
Rich knows if i thought something was wrong i would jump up and down ,but i would do it to him first then blast it all over every forum

 

[Donk]

my time is valuable because im doing studies and wok a full time job of 48+ hours a week, so ten minutes reading or ten minutes studying, is non brainer to me.

maybe this is wrong what is wrong with ballers in this country, instead of taking a collective of ideas, they moan about someone's input regardless of what it says. and your little dig is about as mature as my very naive outlook on paint ball when i first started. This my friend, is a forum, where opinions can be said and thoughts raised but maybe with the attitude you portray maybe its best i dont play tournies anymore.

Yeah I just couldn't resist stirring that thread up about the mech... I was it stitches reading it

 

[Robbo]

Robbo the incident never happened at the cpps and luckily Rich has got some of the best refs in the uk period
this happened at the masters ,which we have not played since.
none of the refs that day ref at the cpps so no problem
all we did that day was the more they bitched the more aggressive our play got especially when it was one of the masters sponsored teams
i even got asked by the promoter to go steady on a team,lets just say it didn,t happen
and the game lasted under 30 seconds with some extra luuuurrrvvvv
Rich knows if i thought something was wrong i would jump up and down ,but i would do it to him first then blast it all over every forum

Bisc, OK, no probs but I thought you were kinda predicting that sort of situation would erupt in most tournament series and this was part of your generalisation.

Anyways, I heard about stuff going on with the Masters many times but I ignored most of it but the problem is with that, they have a home team playing in that event series and that will always cause problems but I now hear, even a lot of the home team guys wanna go play CPPS which is kinda ironic to say the least ..

 

[Biscuit]

yes you were right rich does sponsor some team
but i don`t think it will happen but as i said if it is even just a bad call then you may get some bitching,but i`m sure Rich would kick ass

 

[no-infernomark]

Yeah I just couldn't resist stirring that thread up about the mech... I was it stitches reading it

Then i also apologise for my rather rude outburst. i do love all you ballers really. even the mods i knew someone else would bring it up

 

[Donk]

So Pete, bottom line what can we do?

You have the biggest (and according to tap-a-talk) most popular) site in Europe.
What can the everyday baller (like me) do to swing paintball back to the buzz it was?

I have done what I can in sense of trawled the forums, old sim cards, other peoples training days etc & collected enough individuals with the RIGHT attitude to make a mid sized team & we enter every F5 event & train for them but this won't effect the industry in my mind.
If the F5 doesn't become the next big thing I can't see the same players wanting to go play race for two for 70 seconds then drive home again...

So what's to be done big bloke?

 

[Robbo]

So Pete, bottom line what can we do?

You have the biggest (and according to tap-a-talk) most popular) site in Europe.
What can the everyday baller (like me) do to swing paintball back to the buzz it was?

I have done what I can in sense of trawled the forums, old sim cards, other peoples training days etc & collected enough individuals with the RIGHT attitude to make a mid sized team & we enter every F5 event & train for them but this won't effect the industry in my mind.
If the F5 doesn't become the next big thing I can't see the same players wanting to go play race for two for 70 seconds then drive home again...

So what's to be done big bloke?

I don't think F5 will become the industry standard format for tournaments even though it would do the event scene a whole power of good but our format is just one of the problems.

I think as a transition move, it would make sense to revert back to 7 man if only to allow us to tread water for a year or so and also provide a softer landing for woodland players to cut their teeth on.

That aside, I would love our players to care more and try to look at the bigger picture.
I think the player's response to the Fed Cup was a real kick in the nuts for a lot of us in the industry but that can be put right easy enough if the players can organise themselves somehow into a credible body with a single voice.

And that single voice has to show support for initiatives designed to help them otherwise people [the industry] lose any inclination to help .. and let's face it, our sport is a subtle interaction of both industry AND player, we have to start working together.

Come to think of it, we'll do the work, all the players have to do is turn up ... hardly a call to arms now is it?

If the players and teams support the Fed, and their sanctioned events, then the future is definitely positive and it's only a matter of time before we climb back out of the gutter.

We need player mobilisation, organsiation and commitment ... you guys do that [and I'll help as much as I possibly can both with my time and my site] and I promise you, we'll be on our way back .... it seriously don't take that much and will make SUCH a fuhkin difference and will change the mindset of all our players and teams.

At the moment, we are hemorrhaging players both in terms of leaving and back to the woods .... the prognosis sucks .... it's time do something about it I think.

Over to you guys !!!!
If you need advice on who to help organsie then I can name people right now, people like Lump, Gassy, Bambulus, Cook$, DsKize, Bolter, Mario, Tom Allen ...

Now I know these guys are mostly mods but that's because I know them well enough to also know enough to recommend them .. they have paintball in their blood and that's necessary for the job in hand.

They got tons of experience and got a good number of brain cells between them .. it may well be some of those guys wouldn't want to get involved, that may be the case I dunno but there's nothing to be lost in asking any of them.

If I honestly believed we could motivate people, I will offer my help to do what I can but initiatives like this are a two-way street ... we need players, and lots of them.

I'm open to any ideas and regarding this site?
Yes, we are the busiest European site but ever wondered why?

It sure ain't my magnetic personality .... I think I've pis$ed off more people than I have befriended ... it's because of you guys ...... our site is an emergent property of its membership ... take a bow people .... any while you do it, take yer finger out ya ass and start caring about our game ... please .... pretty please.

 

[Baca Loco]

Hey Pete
No answers here I'm afraid but I have been following the thread because it's the sort of thing that interests me and because I see some similarities on my side of the pond. Mostly I've got questions -- and an observation.

The observation first: player mobilisation, organsiation and commitment are going to require leadership and a plan that is mapped out in advance. Even the players that want to be involved will be largely overwhelmed if they are expected to get the ball rolling "from their side" of the equation.

Now for a few questions.
What is the goal? Is the primary goal more tourney teams in the UK? Is it a national league structure? What is the primary target and what is supposed to follow from that initial success?

In the heyday of competitive paintball in the UK what did it have then it doesn't now?

Is there anything to be learned from what happened and is happening in other places like Germany or Sweden or France? How is it the DPL has over 200 teams competing?

It seems to me that in past similar threads the lion's share of the blame was put on the punter sites for not operating their businesses in a manner conducive to building and growing a gear owning player base. Assuming that's true and remains so a couple of things follow--early efforts to build a healthy & vibrant competitive paintball community must necessarily start small, and, other ways around those grassroots roadblocks need to be found and/or encouraged.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Ollie274]

hi guys, have been following this thread for a while and so decided to chip in my 2 cents etc... am relativeley new to balling so cant really comment on the good old days, but i can see what is going on around me.

Alot of comments seem to have similar ideas regarding what to do in this situation of decline: gain an identity for UK ballers under an umbrella scheme whether it be insurance, clubs, tournaments etc...
induct "fresh meat" into the world of paintball
and to advertise paintball positiveley and remove the negative stigma's attached to it
and many more:
it seems like the paintball world is suffering at the roots. With new players having to fight tooth and nail to become a part of this community. I can say that 2 years ago when i started tourney ball had it not been for the lucky irish blood flowing thorugh my veins and an awesome guy named "beardy joe" i wouldnt have made it to the tournament scene. It seems from my perspective very inaccessable for self-funded players. although what isnt inaccessable is to players is the woodsball scene. buying a gun and gear etc... for woodsball (where i started) doesnt have to cost you more than £150 and from there it is much easier to branch out onto the tournament scene. As i did, if you hang around a site where tourney ball is played then inevitably you will meet others who play etc... and then move onto the tourney scene if you so choose.
this is where the paintball sites come in....
if you are a new player and buy a site gun, you inevitably will re-visit the site later on,and with each re-visit they will become (hopefully) more immersed with the paintball "system". so both you as a player and the site will gain from you "gearing up". I was lucky enough to have found a site which nurtured me as a player through the woods and onto the tournie scene with amazing marshalls, great fields and great customer support. i know that all too well many sites are not this good, and so perhaps an idea previously discussed could be implemented. The marking thorugh some means (on the internet etc...) what is a good site and which is bad etc... which is accessable to the general public allowing them to get the best paintball experiance available as first impressions mean alot and for the best sites to get the most customers, increase in profit margins for them.

so how would i tackle this problem? as i say , implement a merit system on the web regarding paintball sites that can be easily accessed by the public showing them where they can recieve the best paintball for the fairest cost etc...
encourage new players to invest in paintball with kit deals, scenario days, walk-on's,mini tournaments, local paintball clubs, noob clinics. Although this may sound a little odd but my school were more than happy to offer me the chance to have an assembly to recruit paintball team members locally, no reason why schools cant get involved with balling through information or clubs etc...

also discussed briefly on this thread are the stigmas attached to paintball regarding price. Upon setting up a team i was amazd at the amount of my friends (who had part time jobs) to say immediateley "too expensive". Assuming that my 10.5bps tournament was funded on paintballs costing £6 for 100. unfortunatley it may be hard to remove these stigma's as i know and they have good reasons but sites are very protective over the information regarding the "real" cost of paintball. Any ideas on how to remove this stigma would be appreciated?

as far as umbrella schemes go at joining paintball together into one UK family i think it is a great idea. The ukpsf insurance is brilliant! as it is relativeley inexpensive, easy and can be done online. As far as clubs go, it needs initiative from team captains/sites and veterans who are prepared to exchange a sat/sun to teach a club. The sites need to allow this and encourage it. I think earlier when someone mentioned a monthly fee for the club was a good idea. so for these clubs to work there needs to be something in it for everyone:
club members: obviously the club, being able to play for cheaper than a punter day, playing around experianced players, being able to be in a great paintball environment not aimed at bleeding them dry of money, UKPSF membership
teachers/marshalls: with the monthly fee perhaps some sort of payment, being able to play themselves
paintball sites: getting money from the monthly payments, new players buying gear/playing on site

but also as a tourney baller, i do feel that tournaments lack real incentive to play for those top spots. it is a massive commitment both time-wise and financially to tourney ball and having played for 2 years, i have the bug, but a lack of prize incentives etc... Although having seen what the winners of the KOTH get at the end of the year i have to say i am a bit jealous

could go on for pages but will stop, what do you guys think?, if you think i am talking nonsense feel free to say so. But please dont crush my soul with your words

all the best Ollie

 

[Robbo]

The observation first: player mobilisation, organisation and commitment are going to require leadership and a plan that is mapped out in advance. Even the players that want to be involved will be largely overwhelmed if they are expected to get the ball rolling "from their side" of the equation.

Now for a few questions.
What is the goal? Is the primary goal more tourney teams in the UK? Is it a national league structure? What is the primary target and what is supposed to follow from that initial success?

I think the primary goal is to generate more teams yes but we have to somewhat paradoxically, accomplish a few things before our primary goal.
And those are, to organise better our leagues and to then consolidate the existing player base into an accountable structure such as a player register aligned with someone like the UKPSF.
Once those have been achieved, I think our primary goal then has the required infrastructure in which to grow.
The overall goals at that point are continued growth and accountability for player, team and event promoter.

In the heyday of competitive paintball in the UK what did it have then it doesn't now?

Good question, a very good question .... I think, as you suspect, our heyday didn't have many of the things we are trying to invoke now .. which of course beggars the question, so WTF is going on here? .. I think the whole attitude of players was different then, I also think there were more teams and of course there is a marked demographic difference in that, in our heyday, the average age of a player was something in the order of 10 years older.
This can then explain why maybes the average player had more disposable income compared to what the average player now has and goes some way at least to explaining our decline .. but only some way.

Is there anything to be learned from what happened and is happening in other places like Germany or Sweden or France? How is it the DPL has over 200 teams competing?

The French and Germans are ripping us a new a$shole; I'm not sure of the exact figure but its over 600 teams those guys have registered in their respective leagues and membership schemes.
Many people over here are scratching their heads regarding the disparity between us and those two nations just mentioned especially when you factor in we bossed the craap outa them a few years back.
As to what we can learn???
They have two things that are significant .. a couple of major league series, and a body of players who take our sport more seriously ... their players seem to feel more connected when enrolling in different membership schemes and it's a connection our guys don't seem to want, or commit to.

It seems to me that in past similar threads the lion's share of the blame was put on the punter sites for not operating their businesses in a manner conducive to building and growing a gear owning player base. Assuming that's true and remains so a couple of things follow--early efforts to build a healthy & vibrant competitive paintball community must necessarily start small, and, other ways around those grassroots roadblocks need to be found and/or encouraged..

I think you have answered in a some Socratic manner which of course is good because we learn from our answers ..
As for our site owners?
Generally speaking, they ain't the brightest of people, or indeed the most imaginative but I have changed my mind somewhat lately and moved away from them as the prime blame for this mess ... I tend to focus upon a joint responsibility of our promoters for not jettisoning a wholly inappropriate format, our site owners and the players for not responding when they are given a chance.
I don't think anyone can argue this but I'm sure they'll be some who try

Many thanks Paul, as always mate, your contribution is appreciated.