Are we just a bunch of saps or do we have any power?

[no-infernomark]

i haven't read the whole of this thread but what i have read makes sense.

if its about getting punters in to the sport the sites are where we start but from a business perspective, unless the owner is a baller himself, which alot aint, his interests will not be in promoting the sport of tournie ball more profit margins and making dosh.

punters dont do to bad considering. pay £60 bucks for a cracking day and some right laughs, heck i remember my drinking days and that was a round of drinks. so value for money is good. ripping off punters? unlikely, these sits make money. they are a business just like cinemas or bowling alleys. the prices are reasonable. the outgoings of a site are quite large, rent, insurance, wages and equipment all overheads have to be paid for. do you think site owners would contiune to run a site if they wasnt make a profit? they deal with all the stress of setting it up to then lose out just to grow a sport they might not be that interested in?

alot of sites are dog but alot of sites are awesome and do give a hell of a day entertainment. with paintball i dont think its we ave to get them all in. we have to settle with people will play and some will carry it on, some people go karting, some carry it on. we do get alot of people start by doing nothing but providing a site.

having the UKPSF membership mandatory to play is an excellent idea. airsoft suppliers, i believe, will not allow you to buy a gun that isnt bright colours unless your a member of a site or group. makes sense to have people sign up to rules and regs etc.

my biggest gripe with tournies, bearing in mind the last time i played tournie was 2+ years ago, was the incentive to play. everyone wants paintball to be a massive sport but until there is some sort of incentive to get teams to play seriously will they? the fact is paintball is, compared to other sports, expensive. equipment is expensive, paint is expensive etc. (outside opinions) i cn afford to play so i do. but can we justify teams paying 300+ bucks to play and then win and get squat in return. i see it mentioned football in a post here. to class paintball in the same context as football is mental. paintball is far out of the realms of that. id love it to be there but its not. it all boilies down to money. people want to play ball but it costs. the paint costs. the equipment etc. football is just a piece of leather and some boots. which can last for ages with no outgoings from that. the stadiums are there to bring in money. players dont pay to play. paintballers do. to play paintball for free would be awesome however is incredibly unlikely to the majority, someone always has to foot the bill.

 

[Ronniepimpstar]

What's most bizarre is that at the time we thought that french guy was ripping us off, but looking back.. Rose tinted of course..
However Lauren could throw a party and the teams did get what they won.. We once got 4000 euro's for being voted best reffing team?

Bis... I think limited paint tournies would set us back against our foreign counterparts but are definetly a brilliant option for new teams... Yes maybe the players did play a part in the downfall and loyalty can be repaid in volumes.

The problem seems to be the lack of professionalism representing the sport, people have tried to get solicitors and the like involved to move us in the right direction, but without any prior knowledge of the game or any history references they were too expensive and legging it in the wrong direction. We now need to put the right people in place and give them the opportunity to have a go and do what's right.
Thing is we need a target to achieve instead of just moaning and wasting time trying to change what is without direction.

 

[Biscuit]

ronnie it,s not down to player loyalalty
the industry cannot agree on the same structure so why should the players.
if the industry all can`t agree
i;e paint £40 per box all events and shops minimum
entry £30 per player no matter if a team as 5 or 7 players
gun rules the same across the board from walkons to scenario
look at any other sport players do as they are told by the governing body end of so do promoters
now thats the big problem promoters do as they please
charge what they want etc etc

 

[Robbo]

.. I know personally Pete that you don't profit from anyway for the work you do.. Can you name one more? .......

These people don't need to be saints, take your Budddy the french guy, he made money, but he also put on a hell of a show

Ronnie, no I don't profit from any of the work I do, quite the opposite in fact; it costs me and trust me on this next point but I think you know anyway, I am by far the poorest fuhkah out of all of them and least able to bear any sort of cost.

I'm afraid we have a minority people in our industry who love to talk the talk but don't walk the walk ... I've learned quite a bit this last year or so whilst working with the Fed and the most valuable thing I've learned is, actions always speak louder than words ... anybody can talk bollox ... but when it comes to actually doing something, they go on the missing list.

Luckily for us, we have a hard core of great people who are willing to commit for the betterment of our sport and not for the betterment of their back pockets or purses.
We have a fighting chance all the time these people are around ...

As for my French friend Laurent?
That man did and still does know how to give value for money and he put on great events that people valued and looked forward to .... Laurent is one of our sport's true visionaries but his focus isn't on putting on events like it used to be .. his attention is focused elsewhere with the MS being more a distraction for him than the real commitment he needs to have.

 

[Robbo]

ronnie it,s not down to player loyalalty
the industry cannot agree on the same structure so why should the players.
if the industry all can`t agree
i;e paint £40 per box all events and shops minimum
entry £30 per player no matter if a team as 5 or 7 players
gun rules the same across the board from walkons to scenario
look at any other sport players do as they are told by the governing body end of so do promoters
now thats the big problem promoters do as they please
charge what they want etc etc

Biscuit, the industry has shown more commitment and dedication to organising themselves [and indirectly our sport] than the players have ever done; there is no justification whatsoever in implying the player's indifference to commitment is somehow a derivative of the industry's 'failings', it just doesn't make sense mate .. the players are independent in terms of their ability to make decisions about what they do and it's no good trying to blame the industry here for a failing in our player base.

If we try to deflect responsibility here then we have zero chance of building our house of cards again ..

 

[Biscuit]

Robbo you maybe misinterpritng what i,m trying to say
we have two divides in paintball tournie and scenario
we don,t seem to be able to cross this divide with both sides working together
i;e say the feds working closely with say the super 6 guys
bringing this community closer together
i know more than most what commitment the guys that are part of the fed have tried to do with some successbut that only takes in tournie ball
now look at it from say a new players view trying to decide whats best for them
big problem.

especially the young,their parents come and look and ask questions
they do not see a solid structure within the game like other sports

best example would be motorsport no matter what type or formula within the sport you decide to do, it all comes under one governing body.
there is a well developed club culture etc etc,which as all been developed by the industry through academies and support not freebies

as for the players we all look at just a few criteria
cost
value for money
good competition
but end of the day players are like sheep (no disrespect to anybody)
if an event came along that say offered the same qualities that the cpps offers,but £50 cheaper you would see players and teams start to swap events just the nature of the beast

this is why the industry are the only ones to take this sport forward,players don,t know what is always best for them
input in certain things yes maybe but unfortunately i think it,s going to be down to the big boys
i,m not blaming the industry as a whole but we have people within it that don,t want to work with the rest of the industry trying to take us forward

 

[Missy-Q]

Robbo you maybe misinterpritng what i,m trying to say
we have two divides in paintball tournie and scenario
we don,t seem to be able to cross this divide with both sides working together
i;e say the feds working closely with say the super 6 guys
bringing this community closer together
i know more than most what commitment the guys that are part of the fed have tried to do with some successbut that only takes in tournie ball
now look at it from say a new players view trying to decide whats best for them
big problem.

especially the young,their parents come and look and ask questions
they do not see a solid structure within the game like other sports

best example would be motorsport no matter what type or formula within the sport you decide to do, it all comes under one governing body.
there is a well developed club culture etc etc,which as all been developed by the industry through academies and support not freebies

as for the players we all look at just a few criteria
cost
value for money
good competition
but end of the day players are like sheep (no disrespect to anybody)
if an event came along that say offered the same qualities that the cpps offers,but £50 cheaper you would see players and teams start to swap events just the nature of the beast

this is why the industry are the only ones to take this sport forward,players don,t know what is always best for them
input in certain things yes maybe but unfortunately i think it,s going to be down to the big boys
i,m not blaming the industry as a whole but we have people within it that don,t want to work with the rest of the industry trying to take us forward

If the players jump ship for the sake of 50 quid, who's going to invest in an academy for them? I know I wouldn't
Why is it always up to 'the industry' to make things better for the players, and in this case, the players in the UK? Problem in the UK is a really, really skewed culture, and an unhealthy expectation of support by players who simply don't actually merit any support. It's the age old UK divide - 'punters' or 'players'. Punters are the lowly saps that pay MAP pricing, and therefore the ones that the 'players' look down on, because, well, they pay full price, I guess...

Here's an idea - all get off your asses and attend one event in the UK, annually. If you can't do that (and there's plenty of proof to show that you can't), then you're not getting any help, because you've NOTHING TO OFFER!!!

 

[Robbo]

Here's an idea - all get off your asses and attend one event in the UK, annually. If you can't do that (and there's plenty of proof to show that you can't), then you're not getting any help, because you've NOTHING TO OFFER!!!

Ouch, double ouch !! ...... the truth frikkin hurts .....

 

[Biscuit]

can`t agree more Missy
think back there was no industry support for teams unless you were the mutts nutts.
paint was not cheap etc etc
then the industry started throwing support about like it was going out of fashion.
any tom ,dick and harry could get it
promoters didn`t give free places
so the industry as supported this present culture of freebies,so now we are at that point where every new team or player expects support or freebies
so yes the industry have a role to play
i wish they would pull the carpet out from all the players feet and everybody had to pay the same price for everything,but that ain`t going to happen.
if it did watch how many players would leave ,but you would end up with the commited players and also be able to restart paintball in this country for people that want to play but can afford to play and develope slowly

ps Missy i play every cpps event if possible(site not needing staff ) no freebies pay full price for everything

 

[basktm]

i'm feeling really stupid here :O forgive my ignorance.

But i get the general feeling that people think the prices and 'sponsorship' should go away, so everyone pays more, is this correct ??

So in essence what you want to do is drive more players out of the sport ?? so their is less to play in tourney's/big games, which means organizers loose money and stop providing events ??

So people like me who have just started and love the game, but have kids and a family and earn a normal wage couldn't play anymore ?? so it would be for the rich only.

like i said i am/must be ignorant and i admit i am lost here, but how does this improve paintball.

sorry biscuit mate, but saying people would leave because the deals got taken away, doesn't matter how committed you are, if you cant pay, £100's and £100's for a single day tourney then you just cant, i think our first team used 19 odd boxes in the last tourney, so by every one's standard on here the 6 of them should have picked up a £1150.00 paint bill :O

again peeps just an outside view and trying to understand, but i just cant for the life of me get my head around forcing more players out helping the sport.