XBall or 7 Man which is it?

[Baca Loco]

The first shot in the great mod war

Originally posted by Wadidiz
I know this is long (as usual for me) but I can't ever let Andy Piper write more words than me.

Steve

Not to worry, Steve. Pipes could write twice as much and not make half the sense.

PS--as to the "suggestions" of mine I's just priming the pump, so to speak, but do think a few more bunkers to encourage and enable more tactical variety would be a positive.

And about that Mod War thing--we've been yakking about this behind the scenes which is where Piper first posted his semi-coherent comments --and decided to let y'all in on it as it's a good topic. But as usual, the bums is gangin' up on me.

 

[Wadidiz]

The first shot in the great mod war

Originally posted by Baca Loco
PS--as to the "suggestions" of mine I's just priming the pump, so to speak, but do think a few more bunkers to encourage and enable more tactical variety would be a positive.

One of the many fun things about my extra job-from-hell is what I get to learn. Beginning to understand field layout. Picking up from Alex and Max Lundqvist, Mr U, Laurent, Mike Ratko, Magued, and many more. Watching a lot of games.

So Baca, you want to help design the Campaign Cup X Ball field?

Send me a plan, stan.

Anyone that has ideas...send them in.

Keep those cards, letters and e-mails...

Steve

 

[knobbs]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
It's really very simple. Current tournament model paintball as shown in video zips and snips is practically empty of content. It's all flash, no substance. Some players enjoy it cus they know what they're looking at but the vast majority of videos (DVDs) don't really give you any sense of a whole game, the ebb and flow, the moves, the tactics, etc. If all you want is to entice MTV generation non-existent attention span types then it'll work okay. If you hope to present a real sport--it won't.

Real sports enthusiasts are not only more than capable of digesting and understanding complex rules--many of them enjoy that aspect of the sports they watch. Having to learn something about a game isn't the kiss of death!

Perfectly stated, Baca--could not agree with you more!

 

[Manning26]

I agree with Nick that if you played X-Ball on a normal sized field, and may I add, without coaching, it might actually be something. Put the thinking side back in the game, let's see the difference between the stars and the utilities again, give the players a choice of more than one bunker to go to for cryin'-out-loud! And maybe, just maybe, we'd see the different specialized positions show again. Todd Adamson was still out there pullin' one on three's out of his butt, but the days of the slow back guy are about numbered if X-Ball stays its course. Oh, there should always be room for one large-ish ripper, but we've all seen the trend toward little-guy killers in the NXL. The fields are so small right now, you can gun-fight from anywhere. There's no standing and raining in paint to advance your front guys, because you're as easy to reach as he is. You end up with what's essentially a team of front guys, and that doesn't really sound too horrible, but on the field it's the equivalent to playing chess with only the pawns. That's what's bothering me right now. If we could put the game back in the game, give it the substance of ten or seven-man, let the players show what they've got, then X-Ball could really be something special. Let's please keep it simple, without oversimplifying it, and let's not add all of this superfluous bunk to it to liven it up. Doctors put the paddles to people to bring them to life, and executioners use a little extra for 'the chair', let us please not over-do it.

 

[Red_Merkin]

Good ideas Nick and Manning

Nick, which field do you think was the best x-ball field so far?

 

[Piper]

The first shot in the great mod war

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Not to worry, Steve. Pipes could write twice as much and not make half the sense.


And about that Mod War thing--we've been yakking about this behind the scenes which is where Piper first posted his semi-coherent comments

Paul

It's nice too see that during a debate you still have time to throw insults my way Bothered!

There are some good ideas here and I am liking it. I find myself alomost agreeing with Nick and 26. XBall does lack something but it is finding that something.

Steve
You say

I do know what I felt the first time I saw an X Ball game. NY vs Miami. I was born again!

But I have watched a sit load of 10 man and 7 man games and once the semis/finals games start you see the best of everyone that competed and that is what it is all about. XBall (too me) does not have that same excitment. Look at the Demark France game in the Dam. It came down to how long people could play on as apposed to who was the best. I know I was 20 feet above you and saw all of it go down! Is that what we really want?

Piper

 

[gaff]

i think incouraging aggression and speed in the 7 man format with maybe a set of flags that can only be claimed before a timer runs down, say 1 minute for the 50 flag, then 2mins forthe flag in the opponents 40, maybe not a flag maybe a buzzer or button link to exploding confete?! (maybe too far!) but in essence i feel the 7 man format is more entertaining cos you still have maybe 3 options from the break every game, whereas X-ball you have the same bunkers game in game out!

with regards to filming/televising any sport one camera on the filed is useless! you need at least 10 cameras on a field and a proper editing suite so that a director can see moves happening and select said camera, this is of course dam expensive and complicated to set up but if we are serious about making this serious then someone has got to invest. look at American Football they have cameras on wires above the action along the tapes in the goal posts, on players headgear all for diferent angles and perspectives

just my humble view

 

[Baca Loco]

The first shot in the great mod war

Originally posted by Andy Piper
Paul

It's nice too see that during a debate you still have time to throw insults my way Bothered!

There are some good ideas here and I am liking it. I find myself alomost agreeing with Nick and 26. XBall does lack something but it is finding that something.

Steve
You say
But I have watched a sit load of 10 man and 7 man games and once the semis/finals games start you see the best of everyone that competed and that is what it is all about. XBall (too me) does not have that same excitment. Look at the Demark France game in the Dam. It came down to how long people could play on as apposed to who was the best. I know I was 20 feet above you and saw all of it go down! Is that what we really want?

Piper

Insults? Moi? Nothing more than a harmless comment on your writing style compared to Wad's, is all. And I did say semi-coherent when ill-conceived and unintelligible was probably more accurate.

By your own accounting "I have watched a sit load of 10 man and 7 man games and once the semis/finals games start you see the best of everyone that competed and that is what it is all about" the vast majority of regular tourney style games are simply a weeding out process and things don't get interesting until the semis/finals. So most of the games played are of little or no interest to most of any potential audience, right?
Even now, when the audience is players the DVDs of events simply ignore 99.5% of all the games played cus even the players don't care about most of the games played at a tournament!
If that's the case how can 7 or 10 man be the way forward?


And what was that from 26? A call for clarity and moderation? Obviously somebody smart got hold of his account and posted using his name.

 

[duffistuta]

Yeah, sorry, I must stop doing that.

It still all pivots round the Paintball-as-real-old-style-sport Vs Paintball the extreme sport: one gets weekly coverage of whole matches, the other gets hour-long specials of its festival-style events and 2o-min snatches on magazine programmes. And whicj of those two The Powers That Be in TVLand nominate Paintball as will determine which one Paintball becomes. We are all now pawns, waiting to be moved.

Fatalistic? Me?

 

[Wadidiz]

Re: The first shot in the great mod war

Originally posted by Andy Piper
Is that what we really want?

Piper

The majority of comments I had after the Denmark/France and Norway/Sweden game, was that the first was very exciting to watch and the second not, despite how clean the second game was.

I sure agree with you that playing on or misbehaving is NOT what we want. I don't want it anywhere in our sport and I think I've done my share of suggesting ways to cut down on it.

But don't tell me that there isn't almost as much of that going on in 7-player! Were you at the finals in Toulouse?

I think there was at least as much excitement and suspense around the USA vs Sweden game and all the reports I get indicate that. Too bad you missed that one.

But you're right that the culmination of a tournament in the finals does have a tendency to be very interesting. (As much as I love the Dynasty guys it does become too predictable!)

I certainly very much agree with your comments and Paul's brilliant statement about the need for depth and content. And you're right that the standard (I almost want to say old fashioned) dual-flag 7-player format is heavy on depth and content but way short of spectator appeal IMO.

X Ball as it is today has flash but seems like there is a lack of depth. Flash tends to get old. Like empty calories.

I just got off from an hour and a half conversation with Laurent and a great deal of what we discussed is how to make whatever format(s) we go with have a balance of flash and depth.

And how to make it fit the unique situation and conditions of Europe.

STeve