XBall or 7 Man which is it?

[Piper]

Is Xball really the way to go?

Ok had a thought today about this Xball 7 man thing and which is better.

Now Pete has done a thread that says about the TV side of it, but I got to thinking is it really what we want to see? Here is my thought on the whole thing!

Lets for the sake of this thread use 2 teams and for no reason other than they are the best at what they do (Xball/ 7 Man) and they are Dynasty and the Oakland.

Right back in the day when there was 10 man Aftershock where the best there was Period now we see Bob Long taking the lead at Xball, and Dynasty taking all the 7 mans before them. But who really is the best and what does each format bring to the table?

7 Man
Is by far a longer process in a tournament, you have to spend a day walking fields and working each field out. Then once you start you have to remember what the game plan was, and 5 times out of 10 the other team does not do what you expect them to do, so you have to be one step ahead of the game. And you get one chanc to get it right. Now Dynasty seems to do this. They play best of 3 in the semis and Finals always seem to lose a game, is this to please the crowd or is it because the other team refuse to be beaten and step up a gear? That is an argument all in it’s self! But really they seem to step up a gear and then go and win the next game without losing a player! Which is always rude! So what makes them so good? The fact they are all young and live and Die paintball? Or just because they have that heart and desire to win and win well? Loyalty to sponsors that show trust and believe in what they do? Maybe a combination of all of it but they are the best 7 man players in the World right now!

Xball
Is the newest format that everyone gets excited about but is it really better? You really do not have to walk the field if you screw up then no problem you play again in 3 mins so what’s the problem? Lose some points just go get them back in the next match! Now Bob Long has always had an insight into the game that is second to none. He led the Ironmen all those years ago to many victories, and then he started his own Ironmen and found some kids with talent and trained them to be a force to be reckoned with. He is the man! Then comes Xball he is the best coach there is and Xball seems to thrive on the coaching aspect of the game. Even the Nations Cup has Coaches. But that again is an argument in itself. But if Xball dies tomorrow would the teams really catch Dynasty would Bob just adapt to whatever format is there? Yeah he probably would and do it well but maybe not well enough.

Have you ever seen a game of Xball I mean a real game not the nations cup? Probably most have not seen it. But I have and I really must say it is a very boring concept to watch. Once you have seen a couple of games you know exactly where people are going who they will shoot at and when they will run. It is set plays and only every now and again something fun does happen. I honestly believe that sometimes points are won on who can cheat the best and get away with it. And is that really how we want paintball seen by the public? Do we want the festival theme or people screaming from the side lines Lasoya grabbing his d@ck and flipping the finger? Or Bruno dressed in more padding that the Michelin man? Or refs being threatened and pushed a shoved? Or a team only winning because they had a coach?
Or do we want teams that make the cut showing why they made the cut showing that they are the best of the best, the true pro’s? Getting the crowd involved having a party showing us why they are the best?

These are just my thoughts and this must be the longest post I have ever done!

Piper

 

[Collier]

The only Xball I've seen so far was in Germany and have to agree that the first 10 mins or so were good but after that I did get bored of it.
Now maybe thats because the teams playing the nations cup predominantly play 7 man and thus play Xball with the same mind set?? I dunno.
From what I've seen so far though I'd rather watch 7 man.

Paul

 

[duffistuta]

Only seen Amsterdam, got bored v.quickly but am reserving judgement until after Campaign...

 

[Manning26]

Well, I saw plenty of it, and yes, it's boring. Maybe without the coaching, especially from the spectator side, it would be a bit better, but I doubt it. There aren't enough bunkers to really make it interesting, as nearly every team break out exactly the same, and the change-ups are minor. Strategy is out the window, as proven by Detroit Thunder. Not to take anything away from these guys, as they were seriously taking it to the big boys, but therein lies my point. If the Oakland Assassins played Thunder in a best of three, ten, or even seven-man, they would dismember them, and you know what, it would be a lot more entertaining. Part of the fun for anyone watching a game is that you can see everything unfold, you can see everything that the players can't. In the ten-man this past week I saw two guys on opposing teams pass eachother inthe zipper of the JT field and not even know it. They were now on the other player's 40 and ripping into the other team, with only a little brick separating them. Finally one of them noticed and went backwards to take the other guy, but I digress, the point is, you'll never ever see anything near that in X-Ball because the guys on the field are constantly being fed information. They're rarely surprised, there aren't any on-field misunderstandings, no one misses a guy move up on him, and conversely, it's extremely difficult to bunker anyone clean as they're usually ready for you by the time you come over. I'm afraid X-Ball has oversimplified the game in an attempt to make it flashy.

I know everyone knocks seven-man for being difficult to film, and for some reason everyone thinks the rules are too hard for people to digest, but I think that's all bunk. Look at how many more people play paintball every year, how many more youngsters you see at tourneys, how many paintball videos get sold every friggin' day. Compare the Ironmen '93 video to the NPPL Huntington Beach video and you'll see how far we've come in being able to film the sport. You guys can follow the game, why couldn't our friends and family? Are we trying too hard to dumb paintball down for the masses? Little tip guys, we're not all brain surgeons and rocket scientists here, we pretty-well represent the masses, so let's not worry so much about making paintball flashy. There is so much to our sport as it is, we're losing substance now as we try to chip away, looking for the ultimate representation of paintball. As we try to force it into our televisions we're shrinking it, we're distorting it, and soon it'll be nothing as we overwork it. I think we need to stick with real paintball, and make THAT work. If it takes more cameras so we don't miss a sweet bunker run, then lets do it. A three minute game (what most sevens turn in to) isn't too boring, and it's pretty easy to pick up the basics from just watching the dang thing. Am I the only one who doesn't understand why were constantly trying to overhaul the game that we already love?

 

[Red_Merkin]

I think the best format, is the finals format for Millennium series.
You have teams play three matches, and you just have continous matches one after the other. Reserve two field for Pro teams and let em go at it. Stage them right near by so you have a game of Strange vs Dynasty, then Tontons vs Russian Legion, then Strange Dynasty agains, etc.
Each team plays Three matches, and gets points for wins!
The points add up over a season, and then you go into playoffs, where teams go to elimination.


Remember in television, you can play back the games as if they were played one after the other, so it's like they played x-ball on several different fields, one game after another.
So you'd see three games of Dynasty vs Strange, and then Three matchs of Tontons vs Russian Legion.

You get constant action, but you also get strategy and variation in the game.
Super Pros vs Super Pros only! That's what an audience wants to see!

 

[Manning26]

When you watch......

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....a football match, you are bored when one team is up 3-0 and owns the game.

That's how it is in any sport !

If you match up people evenly in an X-ball type format, you get a good game - if not - you don't !

Same with regular 7-man.... only there, it is boring for less time !

So - the key here is even match ups.

Nick

I agree a bit, Nick, but what also makes it more interesting is when every game you play actually means something.

 

[Buddha 3]

When you watch......

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
....a football match, you are bored when one team is up 3-0 and owns the game.

That's how it is in any sport !

If you match up people evenly in an X-ball type format, you get a good game - if not - you don't !

Same with regular 7-man.... only there, it is boring for less time !

So - the key here is even match ups.

Nick

Don't agree with that. I've watched about a gazillion football games (and only one soccer match), and a good number of them were shutouts and/or walkovers. And guess what? I, and the other 50-80.000 people in the stadium had a blast. Sure, the best and most memorable games are the closely fought ones, but what kept it entertaining was the quality of the game. In my opinion, that's what it boils down to, the quality of the game...

 

[Baca Loco]

It's really very simple. Current tournament model paintball as shown in video zips and snips is practically empty of content. It's all flash, no substance. Some players enjoy it cus they know what they're looking at but the vast majority of videos (DVDs) don't really give you any sense of a whole game, the ebb and flow, the moves, the tactics, etc. If all you want is to entice MTV generation non-existent attention span types then it'll work okay. If you hope to present a real sport--it won't.

Real sports enthusiasts are not only more than capable of digesting and understanding complex rules--many of them enjoy that aspect of the sports they watch. Having to learn something about a game isn't the kiss of death!

As to X-Ball. Here's a couple ideas to beef it up a bit. Add a few props to the fields to add some complexity and diversity to the way each field can be played. Don't worry so much about whether every position on the whole field is visible to everyone.
Consider modifications to scoring system. Perhaps something time related--3 points scored if a hang within 45 seconds, 2 points if a hang within 2 minutes and 1 point for any other score. Or perhaps every score in the final three minutes of a half or period counts for 2 points.
Here's something off the wall. With more props on the field let teams remove a prop from the other team's side during period breaks or at halftime. Or, the reverse--start with a standard current field and every five minutes or between periods add a prop or two.

Whatever is done or not done X-Ball will work given two factors--relative parity among the competing teams and a connection between the players or teams and the fans.
Right now players of the game can enjoy watching anonymous match-ups cause they follow the game. it's a more analytical approach. But which ones are the games that matter when you watch them? The ones with good friends/former teammates or participants you know competing. That's the kind of connection PB needs to make with non-players in order to be successful whatever the final format.

 

[TJ 2]

>>>If all you want is to entice MTV generation non-existent attention span types then it'll work okay.

Bingo! Pball's demographic to a tee...Cow's sorted it, we're fine as we are.

Phew, I'm glad we got that 'let's be a real sport for tha older generation' bunkem cleared up.

Next big issue to be dealt with please.

 

[Wadidiz]

Obviously these are very subjective opinions and obviously I am going to be less objective than most.

I do know what I felt the first time I saw an X Ball game. NY vs Miami. I was born again!

During that LA tournament I vacilated between excitement and interest and dead boredom. For me it depended upon the teams, the coaching, the dramatics and the way the games themselves went.

At that same tournament I accompanied Chuck Hendsch to the grandstands to watch Dynasty vs Naughty Dogs in the final 10-player game. It was exciting and interesting because a Dog managed to get into a long ladder on the spectator side and succeeded in destroying the Dynasty team seemingly unnoticed. Exciting for all 45 seconds, and then it was over!

Same thing with other final 10-player games I watched. Somewhat of a let-down due to all the waiting for a game to happen and then violá it's over in a minute or two.

Nations Cup has had some of the most exciting games I've ever witnessed. The game between Denmark and France in Amsterdam was very exciting with a lot of tension and anger because Denmark upset France. The game between Portugal and France in Toulouse was also spectacular because Portugal was within a minute of beating France in their home. And the Sweden vs USA game was very exciting not only because of the incredible light, music and smoke introduction but because of the fantastic display of PB skills and moves by both sides.

But many of the Nation Cup games have been pretty boring or uninteresting, mostly because of mismatches.

Again very subjective, but I have had countless numbers of people come and tell me how X Ball was the first time they have ever seen PB that was truly entertaining and comprehendable. Many who saw PB for the first time report it was great. And the "party" and crowd involvement in the stands at DMA, Toulouse and especially Stockholm were reported to be worth paying for.

As mentioned, best of three finals for 7-player is far more interesting to me (especially the way Magued and I did it at Joy with the help of the X Ball scoreboard with timer, the horn, the command tower and commentating). But still a lot of waiting for a few minutes of playing, although Joy was much better than Toulouse in that regard.

X Ball might benefit with the suggestions Baca made, I'm not sure. But I increasingly believe we should get rid of team coaches but allow sideline involvement, but from a distance of at least 10 meters from the playing field. Baca's time-bonus might also add something. I would also like to see the between-points time out reduced to 1 maybe 1 and one-half minutes to cut dead time.

Maybe something will come along that will offer the best of 7-player and the best of X Ball. Who knows.

I know this is long (as usual for me) but I can't ever let Andy Piper write more words than me.

Steve