X-BALL rules

[Wadidiz]

Steve,

Originally posted by goose
how can you say that the rules are clear.

If you want the rules to be clear then in the list of infractions & penalties it should be...

Playing on ----> eliminated player & minor penalty

I also know that it wasn't you who wrote the rules BUT they are not clear and MANY people believe that the only offense for playing on is the penalty box.

Now when all is said in done - you where right I was wrong - I take back the flaming. There where numerous other factors contributing to the heat of the moment - and one of them was the fact the refs wheren't doing their job - nor did it appear that they knew what the rules where - and no-one was taking responsibility for making sure they where.

All the players & coaches on both sides, had many kind words to each other the day after - and it is funny that there where no hard feeling amongst those the played on, and those who where played on against - those who bonus balled and thos who where bonus balled - NO all the bad feelings where towards the refs & the organization for allowing it to disintigrate into a free-for-all where teams where required to bonus-ball & play on because that was the only way to level the playing field.

Larsen - you are 100% correct Steve is the only one who stepped up to the plate and attempted to make this thing called X work, and for that I will give him "mad props". But his job is only half done in all the preparation - the remaining part is ensuring that the refs get their heads out of their asses and the game runs smoothly. Hell if I was that much of a pain in the ass - which I am sure I was (it has been known to happen) then he should have tossed me in the penalty box - or maybe naked at the middle of the field so I could get bonus balled.

goose

P.S. Steve from now on I will attempt to be the model citizen - cuz I know it doesn't make your job any easier having lunatics on the sidelines.

Did I say the rules were clear? I thought I just said in my last post that they rules aren't so clear.

But the rules are logical. If a player is eliminated and does anything an eliminatied player is not supposed to do then a penalty is forthcoming. Because the game is not over after most play-ons the penalty has to be something different than another elimination or two. Time in the penalty box almost guarantees that a price has to be paid for a team that plays on and wins the point.

As for judging, I do the best I can with a situation that is far from ideal. Try teaching and enforcing perfect judging for the hardest type of playing in the world of paintball on 10 pull-together teams that each consist of an average of three 7-player teams. Especially when many of these teams don't bother coming to the meetings where we've discussed the rules mentioned here and when refs and players don't read e-mails where these very points have been clarified.

I think the judging by Team Germany was really good during the games you mention. But sometimes things happened so fast that even the best, most highly trained judges in the world would miss them. I saw the bonus balling but I couldn't see who started it, so it would have been incredibly hard to apply the right penalties.

But, we're all learning. It can only get better. And, the games that had the most bitching and that caused me the most headaches were the ones the crowds seemed to enjoy the most. Go figure!

Steve

 

[Wadidiz]

X-ball Amsterdam

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
I was not having fun, I was busy getting ready for the next game and with other stuff, so didn't notice what your discussion was about until you were well into it !

Nick

I should have put a smiley there. It's not so serious. Besides, there was no discussion going on. No biggy.

Next year I hope for a much better situation with X Ball in Europe and together we're doing the ground work for it now.

Steve

 

[raehl]

Phooey.

Anyone who had READ the rules would know that you put a live player in the box when another player is playing on. It's right there. The onyl way you wouldn't know that is if you hadn't taken the time to read the rules, no magnifying glass required.

What you MEAN to be complaining about is "I just glanced at the rules and didn't read the part about playing on and it's someone else's fault."

Riiiight.

No, the rules arn't perfect yet, but that doesn't mean it's someone else's fault when you don't read them.

- Chris

 

[goose]

Don't tell me what is obvious in the rules and isn't - here is a perfect example of the problem...

10.2. UNOBVIOUS HITS
10.2.1. Unobvious hits are those that impact and break on players or equipment in areas not easily observable or hits that players receive and give no indication or knowledge of them having occurred.
10.2.2. Players with unobvious hits will be eliminated but will not be penalized for playing-on.

Playing-on: advancing (Section 12.2.1) Major
Playing-on: obvious hit (Section 10.1) Major

Playing-on: unobvious hit (Section 10.2) Minor
Playing-on: spinning (Section 12.2.1) Minor


So now seeing as the players who where penalized for playing on only recieved 2 minute minor penalties - and none where for spinning - I can only assume that the playing on was for unobvious hits.

But now what does 10.2.2 say? If players are to be just eliminated and not treated as they are playing on why is a 1-4-1 given?


goose

 

[raehl]

Different rule - and that one definitely isn't obvious (the rule, not the hit ).

I apologize if that's the one you were referring to; it should be plenty clear that if a player gets a playing on penalty that a teammate it put in the box - but I totally agree that whether someone should be penalized for unobvious hits is less that clear.

And don't get me started on "spinning".. Gah.

- Chris

 

[Baca Loco]

While the clarity of the rules is being debated how 'bout the rule itself? Why, if one guy plays on is somebody else put in the penalty box? I have no problem with the extra guy being pulled but shouldn't the player doing the 'playing on' be the one in the box? Not hard to change--"Player, two minute minor for playing on" then run over and pull another player. Rule should also be very clear on which other player (maybe it is already, I haven't re-read rules in awhile) gets pulled otherwise potential for claims of abuse also exist.

 

[DMZ Hasse]

As I recall it the rules state that you pull the closest player.

On who to put in the penalty box: I don't agree. I mean, what is worse, being eliminated or getting a 2 min penalty and be reinserted in the game?

The player breaking the rules should naturally also be the one who is punished most. Since the 2 min penalty is basically a team penalty, I can live with the fact that it is someone else than the rule-breking player who goes to the penalty box.

 

[raehl]

Good point....

If you put the eliminated player in the box, that means two minutes later, even if it's the same game, the eliminated player comes back out again.

The way it's written, the eliminated player stays eliminated, and the team plays short for two minutes.

On the other hand, maybe that's exactly what you want - if the point is over inside of two minutes (which is pretty likely in X Ball) you probably want that same player still in the penalty box.

Pretty interesting - I'm going to have to reread the penalties in light of that, as a penalty isn't exactly the same as an elinimation, it's just taking a live player and kind of saying "you're out of the game for a while."

- Chris