X-Ball Europe - The Story So Far

[Tyger]

OK

Originally posted by TJ 2
>>>Create tha product, then get tha TV I imagine is tha current thinking. If tha powers that be are willing to spend their money on a shot that could benefit all of us, why should you worry?

Problem is that if you try to CREATE a market that isn't there, you need to make a GOOD show, or find the market.

And, frankly, I still don't think paintball players are ready for media spotlight. The word "Media Coach" comes to mind...

-Tyger

 

[rancid]

OK

Originally posted by TJ 2
One question: WHERE'S THE TV?
Answer: Nowhere.

>>>Create tha product, then get tha TV I imagine is tha current thinking. If tha powers that be are willing to spend their money on a shot that could benefit all of us, why should you worry?

I'm not worried. This is about debate - and I don't think it's been explored enough. A number of influential posters including yourself, have made grand claims (and subsequently watered em down). And, I think me apart, no one has questioned it? You are right of course, if I am wrong and X-ball takes off then I/we will benefit anyway.... but that shouldn't prevent us arguing.

I've found your last couple of posts to be unusually dismissive with pretty remarkable put-downs; I think if I'd said X-ball was the future, you'd say it wasn't. Then again, on re-reading perhaps I've been a bit over-bearing.

Second question: so where does this leave x-ball?
Answer: A short lived gimmicky format, ill thought out and LESS televisible than the real thing.

>>>Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong.

There you go.

So, on this one specifically, you are saying that without TV X-ball will still become the future of paintball. That the organisers/owners/promoters were correct in their thinking and planning re franchises and the economics and that it is more televisible than normal paintball. I disagree. And in my last few posts to manike, i have tried to explain why I think that.

I've had my tuppence worth. And wont post on the subject again.... except to say I was wrong when it goes ballistic.

 

[rancid]

Hey, it's spiced up a bit this hasn't it?

The stuff Robbo was saying about training, and the outdated approach we have.... personally, i think it could be used as a thread starter, cos I think there's more to sqeeze out of him.

 

[raehl]

Alright...

I'm going to avoid the whole merits of TV stuff and just offer a few suggestions on how you might make X Ball work for Europe, despite Robbo's preemtive request. It might behoove him to note that I have quite a bit of experience in figuring out how to get poor teams playing X Ball.


Option One: Find 2 more teams, split into 2 4 team brackets. As we all know, a 4-team round-robin is 6 games. Play one match per the 6 events, at the end of the season, send the top 2 teams (from each bracket?) over to the US for World Cup. Downside here is you're having to set up an X Ball field for only 2 games per event, but it's pretty easy to convert a 7-man field - and guess what? You have extra 7-man fields when you finish prelims and move to semis/finals. This means that the 8 teams can play regular Millenium, and for a relatively small increase in entry and paint, play 3 X Ball games through the season to qualify for the US trip. Only other trick here is oyu need some flexibility to schedule Millenium semis/finals around any X Ball games those teams have to play - fortunately with only 2 matches, you can just start at 2 PM, or later if you have lights. Oh, and your "extra two teams" could be US teams. This is the "start slow" option, as you only play 3 X Ball matches over the year.

Option Two is more the "Balls to the Wall" Option:

6 teams, everybody plays everybody. That's 15 matches. If you do 3 matches over 5 events, you can still just steal and convert a Millenium field not being used in semis/finals and play the 3 matches the last day of each millenium event. Again, this shouldn't cost much more than playing the Millenium events, as you're making use of an empty field and travel costs are actually less since you only need go to 5 events.


Added bonus for both options: If X Ball teams are using an extra field the last day during/after semis/finals, they can ref prelims.


Also, in terms of financing, I think you guys are missing a very big spectator opportunity here: You can offset costs by charging $5-$10/head to watch the X Ball. From what I've heard, millenium already has tremendous success in getting spectators out to the event. If you bill and promote X Ball as a more traditional athletic contest (2 hours of play between two teams), you should be able to recoup some expenses here, esp. if combined with vending. One of X Ball's strengths is giving you 2 hours to hold a spectator's attention when that's normally lost every 10 minutes with the traditional format.


Skimming the other posts I think these may be similar to other ideas suggested, so, if that's the case, my bad.



- Wee bit of editing done for the sake of peace. Jay.-


- Chris

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by rancid
Hey, it's spiced up a bit this hasn't it?

The stuff Robbo was saying about training, and the outdated approach we have.... personally, i think it could be used as a thread starter, cos I think there's more to sqeeze out of him.

Okay, you get a separate thread. Let's see where it goes. "Training in the 21st Century"

 

[TJ 2]

Watered down?

Hmmm, I didn't think so but maybe...

Anyways:

>>>So, on this one specifically, you are saying that without TV X-ball will still become the future of paintball. That the organisers/owners/promoters were correct in their thinking and planning re franchises and the economics and that it is more televisible than normal paintball. I disagree.

More televisable, yes, and a better format for the upper echelons of pball to be played at, from player, spectator and media viewpoint. I certainly believe all that...the franchise, economics and subsequent 'let's let everyone play if they want/18-man squads/ectect', I think is weak. And X-Ball only needs to be the future of pball at the top level, the rest of tha world rolls on as it is...

If Raehl's college league is as influential as he thinks, then a move to X by them would certainly be important - when ya doing it Chris?

 

[raehl]

Maybe next year.

But it wouldn't be a full move over - probably less than half of our teams can field X Ball squads, and part of our whole mission is getting new teams and players into the game, so obviously raising the barrier to entry from 5-man to X Ball for everyone is a bad idea.

But everyone who played collegiate cup loved it. The big deal is getting teams to commit to something far enough in advance to schedule it. There was some talk about doing some X Ball this spring, if that happens, it'll be something small the Sunday after Nationals. Actually, I just had a brainstorm. Anyway...


Everyone on the NCPA's Board all agrees X Ball (or something similar) is the way to go long term - we'd definitely like to move over to a schedule where each school plays one school every weekend, or maybe 2 schools every other weekend. Right now though, there are really only two conferences (North-East and Midwest) who can support that. I'd imagine we'd do something small in addition to the regular league next year, and in years coming move to a system where we have one X Ball team from each school in the "main" league plus an "intramural" league of regular 5-man like we have now to cover everyone else.


I have some other X Ball stuff on the burner which I should have some more information about in the next month or so. How that works out will probably have a significant impact on where we go with college.


And I don't think we're really all that influential - yet - the big thing about colleges doing X Ball would be showing that it can be done on a budget. It's also looking like if we do it next year, we'll be farther along than the NXL as far as getting to the season schedule X Ball is made for (lots of head to heads over a season instead of 5 clusters of several matches in the same location).


- Chris

 

[Richard Kirke (DUPS Rocket) UK]

I'm still confused...

Is the plan (in either the States or Europe) to have X-Ball tournaments, or to run indidual matches over a season in the same way that football (both soccer and american) is run?

It is my opinion that running tournaments would bypass a number of the advantages of X-Ball.

In answer to Beaker:

Originally posted by Beaker
Al, Richard etc.

I think you're assuming that us mortals will get the chance to play Xball and it will be run as a league that anyone can enter.

From everything I've seen, the only Xball to be played this side of the pond will be by a select (probably 6) few Euro teams in their own "premier" league, probably selected by franchise money more than anything else. They will run in an event next to a Millennium, not instead of.

I am under no illusions that I will ever play X-Ball, this I have said is one of the formats weaknesses, the other being the shear cost, which will have to come from somewhere. I am not sure that I am 100% keen to see the money that I spend on paint funding X-Ball, which will be what is happening if no outside sponsorship (which will pretty much hinge on TV deals).

Rancid, I msut disagree with you over the style of coverage though, if paintball is to recieve TV coverage then it needs to be presented in as professional a way as possible, it needs a professional image if it is to attract big sponsors.

Anyway I have rambled enough...

Richard

 

[supair]

Re: Some reasons...

Originally posted by rancid

Fkin nora. This aint Match of the Day. Do you think this makes a hog'sgonads worth of difference? flik, flik, flik 'God damn, what's this. Hey Paintball, I've got a mate who played this. Wow.' That's the reality. Not, 'Hey, the geezer on the fifty is tight on the blah blah blah...' It's cuckoo-land, thought up by dreamers and followed by idealists and itinerant pick-pockets.
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So, you're asking me to buy into paintball as a family viewed sport, on the lines of NFL, Soccer, Tennis etc?

And I'm saying that anyone who belives that has a screw loose.

Forgive me for saying so Rancid, but you seem a little cynical, bitter and jaded, whats the problem dude? It sounds as though you DONT WANT paintball to be as succesful as NFL, NHL the whole shebang, which is fine if you dont, but dont just keep slamming the ideals that most ballers share.

I personally dont think that europe/uk/usa are ready to be hit with the whole BIGTIME thing, I think set up the X-Ball league and run it like the nppl for now, just for the love of it, dont try and break it straight away, let it find its feet and the TV people will come in time.

I for one would love to see people sitting down for thursday night paintball, saying 'Hey, the geezer on the fifty is tight on the blah blah blah...' that would be a dream come true, but it wont happen if the people who can make it happen take on board the negativity of people like you.

My main point is that you shouldnt set up and run the sport FOR the tv audience. The sport should be set up and running simply for the sports sake, and the tv coverage should come later. All we are hearing at the moment is how we can please this sponsor, how we can get this company on board, and how can we MAKE the audience like the show. Thats the wrong way to approach it. All sports we now see on TV were originally played before TV coverage of sports was even thought of. We need to get back to playing/running the sport because we love it, not because we want to break it to the media/general public. If making the sport a tv hit becomes the main priority to the detrement of the sport, then paintball as a sport will be doomed, and we'll all head off back to the woods with a dull grumble of bitterness and resentment.

Matt

 

[Beaker]

Rich,

My comments were directed towards you in that you posted this:

the UK is not ready for ANOTHER league

Which suggests you thought of it as a league like S2K2, MM etc etc. Which it wouldn't be, only 6 or so teams across Europe playing it as a showcase event

As for cost, it isn't as high as you think it would be, especially when you treat it like Chris is saying with individual matches per instance rather than a series of matches within one tournament.