UK Paintball

[Robbo]

Originally posted by BBS
This is probably a question that a lot of people have asked over the last 18 years. The question that needs to be asked ( and I think it has been in another thread) is " is this a sport or a hobby?" The majority (generalisation) have treated it as a hobby, playing tournies is just an extension of that hobby.

The whole point is this, if you view paintball as a hobby, then go play recball, if you view it is a sport then go play tourney ball, and therein lies our problem because we have no recball and therefore our tourney ball is made up of hobbyists and sportsmen.

If we look across the pond to the US then we can see the hobbyists being more than catered for with their recball scene thus filtering out the hobbyists from their tourney circuit.

I have just had a PM from a friend of mine who not only do I respect but is also a site owner and he reminded me of something quite relevant, some of the paint wholesalers, because of the competitive market over here, sell paint to teams at an artificially low price and this adds to the problem.
In fact the price some teams have bought paint at is the same as what site owenrs can purchase it which is ludicrous if you think about it on one level but advantageous on another.
The net effect of this I am unsure of but it's a practice that certainly needs to be looked at if we are to create a cogent strategy for the UK.
Still, it's got us talking which I suppose is the first step to getting something done....maybes....

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by robtattoo
In my opinion, not that it counts for that much, is that site operators will not run walk-on/rec days on any sort of scale, due largely to the lack of profit to be made from them.
Your average site owner would have to close down thier site to normal 'punters' to make way for the recballers. That's an £80 loss of profit per box of paint sold, factor in that 30 recballers will probably use the same amount as 100 punters (say 30 boxes) that's £2,400 profit lost.

Having Walk Ons on site does not represent a loss to site owners. Walkons typically represent an attendance of between 20 and 40 players. Those players would not play 'punter' as you put it because of the 'insider' knowledge that they posess. They will not pay the prices, and use the sustandard equipment.

Having walk ons on site does not have to disrput the day to day running of the site. At the site I work at we can comfrtably have up to 50 walk on players without it having any effect on the mechanics of the site, even if we have 300 customers. We have enough space and enough marshalls to cover the added outlay.

Due to the fact that the walkons will not play 'punter' aite owners can still make money off them at walk on prices. £45 for paint as opposed to £100-£120 is a smaller profit, but a profit nonetheless. Each walk on player would be worth a minimum of £60 to the site each walk on. There is business sense in having the walk ons. Otherwise you would lose the business from the player. Better to make some (and still a great deal of profit) profit than not having the business at all.

It suprises me that many more site owners do not figure this out. If the normal paint order for a site is 100 boxes a week, with all 100 being sold to customers, then just order 150 boxes to cater for the walk on. Walk on business does not have to be at the expense of normal custom, rather as an extention to it. Making £30 profit per box rather than £107 profit per 2000 is stil good business sense.

 

[BBS]

What is needed, and has been for a very long time, is a united tournament series along the lines of the pro tour/sepl or even along the NPPL/Millenium lines. There are enough high profile organisers out there who can achieve this without the constant bickering and self aggrandisement that has been prevalent in the UK for over 15 years that has led to the fracture lines that started in the 80's becoming an all engulfing chasm now.

 

[TheRenton]

different paint needs to be used though, cheap site ball bearings for the tippys and infernos and half decent stuff otherwise walkon players won't shoot it through their pride and joys. Most bring their own too.

 

[Iron Lions - Ed]

Not being a site owner or walk on player I don't know the answer to this but do walk on players use more paint than normal one-off punters? If they use twice the paint it seems you can sell at half the margin and make the same profit from them.

I can see a strong argument for saying walk on players must use a site paint or pay a higher entry fee if using own paint to compensate the sites for that lost profit.

With the savings in marshalls as they need less supervision I'm not convinced there isn't a good profit to be made. The owner may make only make 50% of the profit from 30 walk on compared to 30 punters but they are going to make that profit from them every month as well.

With the increased walk on's available more punters will hopefully convert thus also increasing sales of basic kit such masks and low end markers.

 

[ollytheosteo]

My local site runs walkons for £20 a head, BYO or buy paint from them at a good price. Mike runs BYO because it means he doesn't have to listen to people moaning about paint all day, and it certainly lightens the financial burden for those who don't have a lot of cash or have a good deal. At £20 a head, with air already running, his only costs are the marshals and therefore he makes money if more than half a dozen turn up.
So why don't more sites do this? Ok, they don't make as much as they do selling paint for £100 a box but it's all still cash coming in and allows players the freedom to use whatever paint they like/can afford. Obviously if you have to close the site to rental customers to have a walkon then fair enough to charge more, but get players giving you £20 every month plus whatever you make from those who chose to buy paint and it's got to be better than a slap with a wet kipper.

 

[jeff]

It seems clear to me that site owners dont want customers to know that there are cheaper ways of playing paintball. They beleive that it will reduce the numbers of players who are paying "Punter Prices" resulting in a loss of profit.

"Why is he only paying £40 a box when I am paying £100?!!?"
" ...are you ripping me off?!!!?"

It is a shortsighted view in my opinion and the cost of your average days "punterball" will do more to drive away paying customers than the presence of walk-ons. This is slowing the introduction of new players to the game of paintball .
There will always be players who play for the first time at a Stag do or Birthday bash. There will always be players who enjoy it but dont want to invest in thier own gear and if you could encourage growth in that area of the market and combine it with a healthy "Rec-ball" market, you have to end up in a better position than you are now?

What sites want are as many full days that they can get and yet it seems that they do little to encourage that.

Interestingly, it is the big "chains" that have adopted a business model that facillitates that growth far better than "the way it has always been done".

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

All good points and I heartily agree.

Remembering when I started playing I scripmed and saved to try and play every 6 weeks or so.

Maybe if the cost was such for the general 'punter' that they could really afford to play more often all those freinds of mine that went twice a year might have gone 6 times a year, those that went 6 times might have gone every month and more might have began playing tourneys (actually none did!!)

 

[martin]

CURRENT CULTURE

The current bread of paintball player on display Pete will not 'downgrade himself' on mass to recball. So what is needed is a grass routes change. I agree the first step should be recball. There is this option already avaible if they choose to look. ( sites like Campaign Paintball Extreme already run byo walk on) But by far the brighter light's are that of tournanment ball. you just got to look on paintballer and see the amount of avents advertised.
I wonder how many players play both the big game and tournment ball and enjoyed the big game more?
I for one love all types of ball i love having a laugh at less stressed events. And love the challenge of playing against the best paintball can throw at me.

 

[TheRenton]

Quite simply we need more "open to all" sup air fields dotted around, with a simple field fee and BYO or purchase onsite for paint. In my experience, many types of player turn up and enjoy the day and return. This is the only way we would get natural players to be able to show their worth when they have never stepped on a tourney field.