trigger guards in portugal

[angel]

what can i say i thought all triggers were meant to have trigger guards on, primarily for safety and to stop trigger bouncing.
any way .
the picture is , its monday semi day, and a team turn up with four guns (angels to be precise )with trigger frames cut right back.
we rightly said to the marshall that this was not allowed.
which after ten minutes looking he found was true.
after about another 15 minutes we were asked to let the players play with there guns as there were because it was & i quote"not been noticed all tourney and it would be unfair to impose this rule on them now as there had not cheated and had no penalty points so far in the tournament, and there did not understand the rules because there were in english.
a few points here i would like to raise.
1:surely the marshall's should of noticed this before and should know the rule without having to take 10 minutes to check it.
2:rule are rules no exception's(or can we now start picking which rules to enforce and which one's to ignore).
3:and does the fact that the team have not cheated and have o penalty's allow the rules to be dismissed.
let me know what u think .
cheers angel

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Hmmmm

As I understand it the trigger guard rule is a safety rule and has no implications for trigger bounce (how would having no guard help trigger bounce?)

The rules are clear and these guns should not have been brought to the tournament at all. Having said that this rule is hardly ever, if at all, implimented.

The guys at the air station should be responsible for checking that bottles are in date and that trigger guards are in place 9they get to see all the guns!!!).

I agree that they broke the rules but also agree that it would not have been fair to ban them at that stage - they had got no advantage with that.

Having said that it would have been interesting to see what happened if they had been involved in an accident after that converstaion - the insurance companies may have taken a hard line!!!

So next time - lets stop them before they play!!!

Mark

 

[angel]

re

i could not understand the trigger bounce but it was one of the marshall's that said that was the reason for the rule but hey it could of lost its true meaning in the translation.
but like you say it should of been spotted but it wasnt.
it would of been interesting if something had gone pete tong , i wonder where everyone would of stood.

 

[manike]

Hmmmm

Originally posted by Mark T, Rushers
I agree that they broke the rules but also agree that it would not have been fair to ban them at that stage - they had got no advantage with that.

Having said that it would have been interesting to see what happened if they had been involved in an accident after that converstaion - the insurance companies may have taken a hard line!!!

Since when did advantage become more important than safety?

This rule isn't about advantages etc. It's about safety and accidental discharges.

The translation may have been a mistake from accidental knocks on the trigger making it go off or something similar.

It's a safety rule! I like my eyes! Please let's not encourage laxness when it comes to safety.

They shouldn't have been able to use them. Period. At whatever point they were spotted.

We don't need an accident do we before we start taking safety more seriously? To me they are the most serious and important rules in the book...

manike

 

[Mark Toye-Nexus]

Si

I totally agree with you - but my heart ruled my head in my reply - and I was there when these guys asked - it would have been really harsh to bar them at that point - and lets not forget they used barrel bags to stop the paint!!!

But you are absolutely right and perhaps the rules should have been rigidly enforced in this instance - they could have borrowed guns or bought new frames (and I bet these were the guys asking if trigger guards were required on this very site).

Consistency is what is required!!

Mark

See you amsterdam?

 

[manike]

Mark my heart agrees with you also. That's why I had a smile in my post.

And I sound like an old fuddy duddy (which I hate) but if we don't enforce rules what good are they?

We need to enforce the rules we have for this sport to grow in the right direction. To be taken seriously. We need consistency.

If people break the rules and get away with it they do not learn... Sometimes rules need to be enforced to make a standpoint and so that people do learn. That's why I agree with players shooting 301 having guns taken from them and players with guns with trigger bounce being banned from playing. I actually think anyone found with a gun over 320fps should also be banned from playing an event. At that velocity the marker legally becomes a firearm being used in extremely illegal ways!

Maybe I am on a sole trip to clean up this sport I want to see it grow in a good and safe manner. I don't want us to learn from mistakes if we can avoid making them in the first place

I will see you in Amsterdam and shock of all horrors I will also be playing! (yeah sharp intake of breath).

manike

 

[RED HOT]

i thought that the trigger guard rule was relaxed for most guns. it seemed that as long as you had a front reg (angels etc) you were OK. it was just for guns that had no physical barrier at all at thr front of the gun.

 

[canpap]

I use my LE Angel (no trigger guard) in portugal, the first thing I asked during the start of the tournament whether it is allowed or not, some marshalls said it was ok but reminded me to be careful...

Thanks to God, not once an accident happened to me. I made a mistake so did the marshalls I think... but when I go to Toulouse, I will buy one immediately.

safety first...

 

[markh]

Lets have some consistency

I agree with Manike, whats the point in having rules if they are not 100% enforced. Lets have some consistency in enforcing rules please.

I saw the following in portugual

1. team with missing trigger guards allowed to play (the one angel is reffering to)
2. team (above) with a hopper of 2 coloured halves allowed
3. team (above) playing with multi coloured stickers on their hoppers for 2 days, until last game whenthe marshals told them to remove them. What about all the previous games ? Were there no marshals ?

4. Some fields checked the number of shirts you were wearing others didnt.

5. On some fields it was possible to not chrony as players were not separated.

6. Was told on one field we could fire from behind the line on the break as long as we "were moving" but on others could not.

7. One field the other team started visibly before game on was called with no penalty.

8. saw one dead player speak to a live player while standing by a marshal and the marshal not do anything.

9. was shot in the goggles, but was called clean, until I pointed out the big hit on my goggles

10. nobody checked my cylinder date, trigger guard.

11. nobody checked I was the player my Id card said I was.

12. Chronys were not consistant, on one field my gun was 295+ but on the main chrony (near the toliets) found it to read 270, with same paint/barrell.

13. Pro player started game with a huge orange paint splodge down the back of his right leg (this came from the starting gate but the marshal had told him to not worry about it) later he ran back with the flag with this seemingly obvious hit on him and was allowed to hang the flag, yet I was pulled for a tiny spec on my hopper.


Refs need to learn the rules and implement them correctly. However as most refs are players firstly and have to work very long days for little money I can understand how differences in rule enforcing occurs. This makes the case for professional marshals, but the sport is not currently big enough to support or even find people interested enough to do this demanding job.

All we can do is ask the marshals to read the rules and perhaps for the rules comitte to write down the procedures for the entire game from walking on the field - checking shirts, to chronying - checking trigger guards, bottle date etc., putting on arm bands, starting etc. so there is no difference in fields.

 

[cowface]

right, i have a evo97 with .45 frame and it doesnt have a trigger gaurd,, now u saying that i cant play in tournements at all??

RED HOT, does this apply for the SWPL? as in do i have to have a trigger gaurd to play in the league/??


Tom