This Millennium 15BPS rule...

[Buddha 3]

Okay, so the Millennium is trying to "harmonize" with all the other leagues.
So one of the things they do is cap ROF at 15BPS.



Why?



There will be no ramping allowed, no full auto, just true semi.
How the hell are they going to enforce that? What if you, like Bolter from team Storm, have fingers that can make many women smile, and can keep up a ROF higher than that? Why, if they still only allow true semi auto, do they impose this cap?

Yeah yeah, it's to keep the cheaters from cheating. Blah blah. They probably think that if you cap things like that, what's the use for a cheatboard?
Let's do some simple maths....
If you want to prevent your gun from ever going over that limit in semi mode, you'd have to set dwell at 67 milliseconds! Do any of us have a gun that can be set that high (or low)?

It's crazy! It's stupid! It's the most idiotic rule since the blind deadbox a few years back!
I agree with TJ Lambini here, the only way is to let the *******s have their ramping/FA guns, and just cap that! (if you have the means to monitor that, otherwise never mind)
Even local leagues are starting to recognise that, why not the self proclaimed most innovative league?

Feel free to discuss, boys and girls.

 

[Wadidiz]

I think the key question is what is meant by the word "ramping"? Many purist think that ramping is the correct terminology for increasing in velocity while many others think it only refers to adding shots. Some say "ramping velocity" and "ramping ROF" to distinguish between the two.

If Millennium go after guns that add shots along with the cap then I agree: we've just danced back around to square one IMO.

I think Millennium ought to go the way Russell Smith is pursuing: allow the gun to add shots after the third pull and require that both fingers have to be working at some minimal rate.

There's was a whole thread on that: http://67.19.5.132/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40592

This is what I suggest:

1. 15 BPS cap enforced by ball-counting instrument (specifically: no consecutive shots where the elapsed time between shots exceeds a rate-of-fire of 15.4 BPS = 65ms between shots)

2. No full auto (two fingers walking)

3. No stored shots (never more than one shot within 150ms of trigger release)

4. No excessive bouncing (simple slow-pull bounce-test while held in tight shooting position to make sure that no more than one double discharge takes place per five or six pulls; also no discharges when tapping on back of air tank or elsewhere on marker)

5. This would be monitored by radar speed guns which can take reading from behind players without them knowing and with ball count detectors (or, preferably, one—single—device that does both).

6. Penalties for violators: Don't know but they must be severe for blatant violators and, perhaps, escalating for repeat offenders.

7. If a player is unsure about his maximum ROF he may use an unmodified Viewloader Revolution (or a similar hopper) to guarantee less than 15 BPS.

 

[Iron Lions - Ed]

I assume they have not been able to announce an OK to ramping etc for the same reason it still remains just a proposal for the PA League and not a new rule yet. i.e. It's breaking the law..
Taking this halfway measure before the rest is in place i.e the ability to let players have assisted fire modes etc seems badly thought through as they have further penalised honest players who may be able to exceed 15BPS as well as creating an extra variable for the chrono jusdges/marshalls to watch for.

Nice of them to find a way to get a lot of people to buy a board capable of cheating to stay honest by programming the 15BPS cap. Do we think once these boards are bought there might be some tempted to make FULL use of them???

 

[TAG]

Quote

"Nice of them to find a way to get a lot of people to buy a board capable of cheating to stay honest by programming the 15BPS cap. Do we think once these boards are bought there might be some tempted to make FULL use of them???"

Its like saying, you can cheat but not so much as before!
And more people will have programmable boards...

Yey, I cant wait til the first leg

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Iron Lions - Ed
I assume they have not been able to announce an OK to ramping etc for the same reason it still remains just a proposal for the PA League and not a new rule yet. i.e. It's breaking the law..

What kind of ramping? Increasing velocity or adding shots? True, adding shots is illegal in some countries.

Originally posted by Iron Lions - Ed
Nice of them to find a way to get a lot of people to buy a board capable of cheating to stay honest by programming the 15BPS cap. Do we think once these boards are bought there might be some tempted to make FULL use of them???

That is definitely not the point to the new rule. If you'd read all the threads about this issue you might understand that the whole industry has a major problem with cheater guns that nobody has found any other way to get under control.

For those who can't quickly find another way to get their markers under the limit there is always the possibility of using a hopper that can't feed faster than the limit.

This may be a hassle for a lot of peepz but it is much better than the grief we all went through last season and the gross unfairness, illegality and unsafeness that happened despite all our efforts.

Why don't those of you who slam this new rule suggest a better, realistic alternative? We're listening.

 

[Chicago]

Nothing like a nice rule change to bring out the conspiracy mongers.

#1 reason for the 15 bps cap:

The goggle manufacturers are comfortable that their goggles will hold up to 15 bps, but are worried they may fail at around 20 bps. 15 is where it needs to be to assure safety.

As fo r"honest players", nobody is really shooting 15 bps without some form of cheating. (And by nobody, I mean less than 50 people, on the planet, total.) Some people outright have ramping boards, some people don't understand that lowering debounce doesn't allow you to shoot faster (it just starts adding shots), etc.

MOST people shoot around 7 to 11 balls per second while playing. Some back players who are able to focus mainly on shooting may get up to 13 or so. That's just the REALITY of the situation.

So, given that VERY FEW peope actually LEGALLY exceed 15 bps, preventing more cheaters from doing so is a good tradeoff for the honest players alone (as any loss on their part has been balanced by a loss on the cheater's part) and DEFINITELY good on the safety issue (as nobody's goggles should be getting hit at greater than 15 bps.)


More directly, of all the things you bitches have to whie about, not being able to shoot faster than 15 bps? Puh-lease, if you can't hit something at 15 bps you don't deserve to own a paintball gun in the first place, or you need to throw out that bag of paint from last year.

 

[Wadidiz]

Thank you, Chi-town. Well put.

(BTW, who the hell R U?)

 

[eebes]

First of i am not sure if I'am Against or for this new rule.
In principle I am against. I belive that you should not hold players back from their top preformance in any way. But I am also against cheating in any form. And if this would help make the game fairer then I am all for it.

So i am an "honest" player. And I am not one of the fastest firing players on this planet. But I am sure that i can fire faster than 15 bps. How do I know, because the big red chrono told me so.
btw i am pretty aware that i would fire that in game...

Originally posted by Chicago

As fo r"honest players", nobody is really shooting 15 bps without some form of cheating. (And by nobody, I mean less than 50 people, on the planet, total.) Some people outright have ramping boards, some people don't understand that lowering debounce doesn't allow you to shoot faster (it just starts adding shots), etc.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by eebes
...But I am sure that i can fire faster than 15 bps. How do I know, because the big red chrono told me so...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the red radar chronies give accurate BPS readings. Besides that I have come to agree with Chicago that very few peepz in the world can exceed 15bps without some kinda help from the gun.

Even if you can, there is still the much overriding concern with taking away the advantage cheaters have had for a couple of years now despite much effort.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by Chicago
Nothing like a nice rule change to bring out the conspiracy mongers.

#1 reason for the 15 bps cap:

The goggle manufacturers are comfortable that their goggles will hold up to 15 bps, but are worried they may fail at around 20 bps. 15 is where it needs to be to assure safety.

As fo r"honest players", nobody is really shooting 15 bps without some form of cheating. (And by nobody, I mean less than 50 people, on the planet, total.) Some people outright have ramping boards, some people don't understand that lowering debounce doesn't allow you to shoot faster (it just starts adding shots), etc.

MOST people shoot around 7 to 11 balls per second while playing. Some back players who are able to focus mainly on shooting may get up to 13 or so. That's just the REALITY of the situation.

So, given that VERY FEW peope actually LEGALLY exceed 15 bps, preventing more cheaters from doing so is a good tradeoff for the honest players alone (as any loss on their part has been balanced by a loss on the cheater's part) and DEFINITELY good on the safety issue (as nobody's goggles should be getting hit at greater than 15 bps.)


More directly, of all the things you bitches have to whie about, not being able to shoot faster than 15 bps? Puh-lease, if you can't hit something at 15 bps you don't deserve to own a paintball gun in the first place, or you need to throw out that bag of paint from last year.

Good points all, but the problem with the "rule" as introduced by the Millennium Series (ie without any further explanation on what it really means) is that it can be interpreted in many ways. What I did is interpret it in it's most stringent form (obviously to spark off debate, as well as point out the lack of info coming from the MS).
I agree with the 15BPS/20BPS/goggles thing. There IS a safety issue.
But you also know full well, as you pointed out, that very few people can maintain 15BPS longer than a few seconds (if that). If the rule means that you can't hit 15 for the duration of a full second, then fine, good safety measure (as long as it gets enforced). If they mean that you can't hit 15 BPS ever, meaning the time between two shots can never be equal to or smaller than 67 milliseconds, we are buggered.
The human finger has no real steady pace when it walks the trigger, there are good number of variations in the time between two trigger taps. Some may fall in the 80-100ms range, some even in the 100-150ms range. But the odd few shots will closer than 67ms together, which, if the rules are as strict as they sound, will get you busted.
Unless ofcourse if you set your dwell at 67ms, but then the shots that are quicker than that will be ignored. So avarage ROF will go down dramatically. Sure, it'll be safer, but is it what we want?

I want my old Cocker back!