So basicaly what you guys are saying is that all guns are created equil, and the operating pressure, turbulance, and recoile have nothing to do with accuracy. Interesting very interesting.
This Accuracy $hit is B/S!!!
- Thread starter TheRo0sTer
- Start date
Hmm. There may be some exceptionally small influences from the marker itself & I know I'm not qualified to detail what these may or may not be - I know theres been a number of similar threads in the past on this type of thing. I'm a simple non-technical girly here, and I just can't understand how the factors you list can really have any significant affect on accuracy.
Operating pressure - no, don't get that one at all.
Turbulance - surely the ball is in the barrel near enough from the moment it starts to move, so turbulance should be affected by the barrel not the marker (provided the barrel is a good match to the paint 7 not enormous).
Recoil - this is a user factor. Some people will scatter shots all over with a virtually recoil-less gun or marker, & others can hit the target first go every time with an elephant gun, let alone a paintball marker.
Operating pressure - no, don't get that one at all.
Turbulance - surely the ball is in the barrel near enough from the moment it starts to move, so turbulance should be affected by the barrel not the marker (provided the barrel is a good match to the paint 7 not enormous).
Recoil - this is a user factor. Some people will scatter shots all over with a virtually recoil-less gun or marker, & others can hit the target first go every time with an elephant gun, let alone a paintball marker.
Why is it that every time you disagree with a girl they have to pull that, "I'm just a girl so I can't pooooosssssibly know what I'm talking about" card!
Now let me clariffy my points
Opperating presure: The higher the opperating presure the lower the volume of air is used and the faster the ball accelerates and vis versa for low opperating presure. Now this can effect accurace and range two ways.
One, Hi OP will distort the shape of the paint ball more then low OP. This distortion can changes the shape of the paint ball and produces a woble that reduces range and accuracey.
Two: This has to do with barrle to gun match. The higher OP the shorter barrle you need and vis versa. You want the ball to be expelled from the barrel just after the ball reaches its maximum velocity. It it is relesed to soon there will be exces air buffeting the ball that can produce a wobble effecting acuracy. If released to late excess drag from the barrel will slow the ball down, not an acuracy issue but will lower efficancy
Turbulance: The amount of turbulance in the air behind the ball adds the the distortion of the ball as it leaves the barrel. so the smother and straiter the route from valve to the bolt face the less turbulance. This was the original reason for venture bolts. It was tought that chanaling the air through mulitiple small holes would give the ball a more even "push", but it was not implimented right the theory is sound thou
Recoil: Yes it is a user factor but it still originates from the gun. So the less recoil the more accurat your shoots. Not many of us will be willing to carry a vise onto the field with us to steady our guns like the supposed "Accuracy test" that is always mentioned.
I hope this helps.
Now let me clariffy my points
Opperating presure: The higher the opperating presure the lower the volume of air is used and the faster the ball accelerates and vis versa for low opperating presure. Now this can effect accurace and range two ways.
One, Hi OP will distort the shape of the paint ball more then low OP. This distortion can changes the shape of the paint ball and produces a woble that reduces range and accuracey.
Two: This has to do with barrle to gun match. The higher OP the shorter barrle you need and vis versa. You want the ball to be expelled from the barrel just after the ball reaches its maximum velocity. It it is relesed to soon there will be exces air buffeting the ball that can produce a wobble effecting acuracy. If released to late excess drag from the barrel will slow the ball down, not an acuracy issue but will lower efficancy
Turbulance: The amount of turbulance in the air behind the ball adds the the distortion of the ball as it leaves the barrel. so the smother and straiter the route from valve to the bolt face the less turbulance. This was the original reason for venture bolts. It was tought that chanaling the air through mulitiple small holes would give the ball a more even "push", but it was not implimented right the theory is sound thou
Recoil: Yes it is a user factor but it still originates from the gun. So the less recoil the more accurat your shoots. Not many of us will be willing to carry a vise onto the field with us to steady our guns like the supposed "Accuracy test" that is always mentioned.
I hope this helps.
But the fact remains
That without a doubt the paint to barrel match is THE MOST important thing. With this right, then all the other factirs could be analysed properly.
Just my 2cents
Richard
That without a doubt the paint to barrel match is THE MOST important thing. With this right, then all the other factirs could be analysed properly.
Just my 2cents
Richard
That's a bit rude. Liz never said that she wasn't an expert BECAUSE she was a girl. She said that she isn't very technical, and just happens to be a girl.
Anyway. High pressure, low pressure, more wobble, less wobble, NONSENSE!
If you want to fire two identical paintballs, down two identical barrels, with identical velocity, it will require the same amount of force. F=M x A (F being force, M being mass, A being accelleration). This is a scientific fact, and no amount of paintball jargon can ignore that. What a low pressure marker can do, is have less trouble keeping the working pressure on a more or less constant level, thereby increasing consistency, which is often confused for accuracy.
It's funny how this debate comes back every two to three months or so....
Yes, absultly Richard. My point was that other things do affect accuracy and range as well. And people that use the physics argument are using a very incompleat equation to try and prove there point.
I agree with Buddha 3 100%. Who cares about operating pressure and that stuff. IMO all GUNS are created equal. I think a cocker and an angel, for example, have the same accuracy. All the gun does it get the ball out the barrel. The barrel and paint are what make the gun what it is IMO!! Dont flame me its just my opinion. And what ever happened to "Its the player not the gun?"
Bit miffed at that statement. I'll happily argue my point on anything that I do know I'm technically qualified to discuss however much you may disagree including some traditionally "male" subjects (e.g. the 4-stroke engine, many male-oriented sports). I just don't happen to be a gun tech & I was talking as someone who was trying to remember basic "O" level physics, and was genuinely trying to understand the subject better based on what little I did know.
Can't give you the entire equation but...
What you say is true, but one thing is missing (okay three) paintball occurs in four dimensions (3 spacial and one time... ok quantum mechanicists will tell you that in fact it is a perameter but lets NOT get bogged down in that!)
The equation F=MA is in fact only considering time and one other dimension (along the line of action). The (resultant) force applied to a paintball is not that simple. It acts in three dimensions (henc ethe relevance of turbulance etc). So in fact yes all that $h!t does matter for accuracy (including left right accuracy and velocity consistency or up/down accuracy). However, not very much! Crosswind, how much you are shaking the marker etc will also all effect it, just not very much either. Accuracy is a question of the consistency (in all 3 dimensions) of the force applied (but lets face it mostly the Umph along the line of action) and then paint to barrel match.
So if you want an accurate marker get a good batch of paint, a good barrel and a consistent air supply (for which the marker is relevant!), and you'll be putting paint in the same place all the time.
Lets face it, paintballs are NOT balistically very stable, so the smaller factors are probably not very relevant.
So there you go, lots more complicated physics, and Buddha 3 is still right. Happy?
Sorry this kinda sillyness annoys me a bit, because it is obvious to me that the turbulence behind the ball etc doesn't matter very much. We just aren't dealing with enough control of the variables to talk about this kind of thing.
If you want to have the player not the marker discusion then start a new string and if I spot it I will write an entire article on the subject based on logic as above! But let's face it that this is all talk and not paintball!
Also a little pet hate of mine, if was only the player NOBODY would have bothered making the expensive paintball markers, we'd all just be suing pumps!
I think this is more $20 the 2cents, but hey
Richard
Jay,Originally posted by Buddha 3
Give me the complete equation then. That may convince me. Until then, fat chance.
What you say is true, but one thing is missing (okay three) paintball occurs in four dimensions (3 spacial and one time... ok quantum mechanicists will tell you that in fact it is a perameter but lets NOT get bogged down in that!)
The equation F=MA is in fact only considering time and one other dimension (along the line of action). The (resultant) force applied to a paintball is not that simple. It acts in three dimensions (henc ethe relevance of turbulance etc). So in fact yes all that $h!t does matter for accuracy (including left right accuracy and velocity consistency or up/down accuracy). However, not very much! Crosswind, how much you are shaking the marker etc will also all effect it, just not very much either. Accuracy is a question of the consistency (in all 3 dimensions) of the force applied (but lets face it mostly the Umph along the line of action) and then paint to barrel match.
So if you want an accurate marker get a good batch of paint, a good barrel and a consistent air supply (for which the marker is relevant!), and you'll be putting paint in the same place all the time.
Lets face it, paintballs are NOT balistically very stable, so the smaller factors are probably not very relevant.
So there you go, lots more complicated physics, and Buddha 3 is still right. Happy?
Sorry this kinda sillyness annoys me a bit, because it is obvious to me that the turbulence behind the ball etc doesn't matter very much. We just aren't dealing with enough control of the variables to talk about this kind of thing.
I think we all REALLY need to realise that this is B*** S***! It is the player AND the marker. You will find trouncing your oponents a whole lot easier with the best custom cocker than you will with a stock TFX. This is because of a huge number of factors. It is NOT the player that makes the marker! But it is also not the marker that makes the player; they are BOTH variables. OK!
If you want to have the player not the marker discusion then start a new string and if I spot it I will write an entire article on the subject based on logic as above! But let's face it that this is all talk and not paintball!
Also a little pet hate of mine, if was only the player NOBODY would have bothered making the expensive paintball markers, we'd all just be suing pumps!
I think this is more $20 the 2cents, but hey
Richard