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The Max Master's Controversy

Robbo

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Just to put the record straight on the affair in Germany. As most of you know, I was pissed off with Laurent and Jean Manuel for what I saw as a flagrant example of favouritism and self-interest on Laurent’s behalf enabled by Jean Manuel’s position as head of rules.
I have had extensive communications with Jean Manuel and here is what I think (for what it’s worth) now knowing the full picture.
Now, there is no point in going into every detail, that would bore the living **** out of everybody, so I will skirt the details and deal with what’s relevant.
We have at first, to acknowledge, that the rule book was inconsistent with regard to hot gun adjudication and resultant penalty awards.
This was as a result of an extensive and I mean hundreds of pages being written and somewhere along the lines, mistakes occur and they did, no real problem so far other than procedural discrepancies.
Also, what made matters worse was a pre tournament resolution passed prior to the tournament regarding guns being chronoed or rather not to be chronoed at the end of the game.
Ton Tons were found to have hot guns on two separate occasions when they had been chronographed at the end of the game, the rule book in one section awarded that infraction with 50 points for each offence.
The judges on most of the fields had elected to do post game chronographing obviously believing that some teams were 'pushing it' as we say.
These judges, quite rightly, ignored the pre tournament resolution and erred on the side of safety rather than procedure.
And they were self-evidently correct as they identified many hot and unsafe guns.
So, still no real problem so far !
But then Laurent found that he had two concerns, firstly the guns should never have been chronographed because at the captain’s meeting, they (with no consultation with anybody) had decided there should be no end of game chronographing.
On that basis alone, Laurent is insulting us all, the fact that his players were running with unsafe guns should not and should never, play second fiddle to minor points of procedure.
His guns were hot for God’s sake regardless of whether or not they should or should not have been chronographed.
After the judges found these hot guns, the rule book in one section, awarded that with 50 points per hot gun totalling 100 points.
At this stage of the tournament (by the end of the first day’s play) it wasn’t too surprising that Laurent would see this penalty preventing his team, The Ton Tons, from progressing into the semi-finals..
Most people realised this !
So, Laurent then discovers or is informed of a rule anomaly where the awarding of 50 points was now deemed to be a mistake because the rule covering this was apparently completely wrong and the correct award should now be progressive, determined by the number of feet per second over the limit.
This would now result in the Ton Tons receiving over 60 points less in terms of penalty award.
Problem for Laurent was, he knew he could not change the rules mid-stream, he told Niall and me as much while at the Campaign Cup.
But this resolution was thrown into the waste bin so he could get his team the Ton Tons into the next round.
He donned his captain’s hat, forgetting to remove that of his promoter's, and went off to get Jean Manuel and the other head judges to see things his way.
The problem for Jean was, here was his employer and long term friend, arguing a case that everybody knew was fatally flawed and at the heart of it was blatant self-interest.
Jean was caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, whichever decision he took, on a constitutional level, it was bound to be wrong as the rule book was itself at fault.
There was now, no way out for any of the head judges to resolve this without in one case or another contradicting one of the rules.
An impasse was reached with two of the three judges resisting any moves to take off the penalty awarded to the Ton Tons.
Both these two judges realised, and quite rightly, that to take off the points, would at some stage be seen as Laurent changing the rule-book mid tournament for his own ends.
But the pressure was kept on from Laurent until such times as the rule was ignored, the points taken off and Ton Tons were now in a better position to continue their way into the semi-finals.
Now as I see it, the judges, including Jean, had a choice, granted, it was a choice of evils but they elected to choose the greater and not the lesser.
And this choice was made, wholly due in my opinion, because Laurent persisted in his argument for the penalties to be lifted and Laurent's postion as a promoter.
Had Laurent kept to his own words to me at the Campaign Cup, none of this would have happened.
He now realises he has made a mistake but hey, that’s a f##kin insult to us all to try and give us the idea he has just now realised what he was doing was wrong, he knew all along !!
He graciously lets us all know that no longer will promoters have any say in the rules application, but what about if a team had not qualified due to his chicanery ?
What good is that, is everything ok now just because Laurent has held his hands up ?
Nah, it ain’t alright, it stinks !!!!
As for Jean, I have changed my opinion and realise that he was a victim in this as much as justice was !!
I believe, that Jean Manuel will now provide us all with a resolute and fair procedure in the Millennium that he will never compromise again.
This situation has ironically provided us (paying customers of the Millennium) with now, the right man in the job albeit by a series of defaults.
It’s never an easy job as Jean, Moose and Joern discovered but it’s made a whole lot harder when you got one of the Promoters and most influential people in paintball trying to get his own way at your expense.
Laurent, in my opinion, abused his position in paintball; just because he is who he is, he thought he could get away with it, and for the most part he has.
Robbo
 

Robbo

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More to the point....

Originally posted by Nick Iuel-Brockdorff
.. The judges decided to chrono the Tontons after a game, because a spectator made them aware a Tonton player (who shall - for now - remain nameles) had tweaked his regulator during the game.
Upon receiving this information, the judges decided to chrono that player... and caught him with a hot gun.
Now... I have no idea if that player tweaked his regulator by accident or in ill will.... So I cannot pass judgement on his motivation.
I can just say that the Tontons had their penalities coming, because of one of their players getting caught adjusting velocity on his gun during a game.
In the interest of truth, I should say I did not witness this myself... I heard it first hand from the spectator who made the judges aware of the occurence.
Nick

Nick, doesn't it seem weird to you that the rules get changed to prevent post game chronographing and then a Ton Ton player is allegedly seen tweaking his reg, and then that gun is subsequently found to be hot ?

And then to add insult to injury, Laurent then changes the rules to prevent his team getting penalty points !!!

Hmmmmmmm :( :( :(
 

manike

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Jul 9, 2001
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In my opinion if a judge or someone of responsible position ever sees a guy tweaking a reg such that a gun is then found to be hot then that player should be suspended.

Accidental hot guns happen and can be dealt with by previously discussed penalties. Deliberate hot guns should receive a much higher penalty. Suspension or banning.

manike
 

Robbo

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As said...

Originally posted by Nick Iuel-Brockdorff
..I am unable to determine whether it was willfull... I didn't see it myself.
- He might have just "seemed" to turn the reg.......
At any rate, the facts are that he was chronoed, and had a hot gun - after the game.
As for things being "strange".
- Well... yes... they do seem strange, but sometimes people do things that seem strange to rest of us, but perfectly logical and straightforward to themselves.
(in a philosophical mood today... so watch out !)
:p
Nick
Circumstantially though Nick, things don't look good do they ?

Point 1. Spectator sees Ton Ton Player adjusting gun (allegedly).
Point 2. Gun found to be hot on chronographing (fact).

Now whilst in a court of law, you may not be able to 'prove' it was an intentional adjustment, we don't need Albert Einstein to make the call on this.

Pete :)
 

Matski

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Aug 8, 2001
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We dont want to end up in a situation where judges feel like their 'hands are tied' by minor rules, safety enforcement should overrule everything else.
If a judge suspects that safety is being compromised by players, he/she should have the right to enforce penalties in anyway they see fit, if this means disqualifying most of a team because their deliberately using dangerous guns then so be it.
You cant have organisers effectively overruling judges decisions, its just a joke.

More than anything, I think all this shows that players cannot be trusted to chrono at the start of a game and leave their markers untampered with, they are more than willing to abuse the rules (even safety rules!) when given the slightest opportunity, the no-chrono after the game idea, gave them that opportunity.
That judge did a good job by checking the players gun at the end of the game and exposing the gun cheat, instead of being backed hes been pissed on - they tried to make it look like he was in the wrong by acting against something stated at the meeting.

Experience is gained from an error in judgement, I think the organisers have gained some experience, not the judge.
 
But surely.........

If the player is able to adjust the regulator on the field this is against the rules (penalty point apply) and if not then he must have had tools to do this (then penalty points apply again). I am fairly certain that either of these infractions attract the maximum 'hot-gun' penalties.
I can only assume that the judge checked for all the 'common' chrono cheats when it comes to regulators etc.
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by rancid
Sorry if this has been asked before...
Robbo, so what has Laurent said about this... have you talked direct to him?
Hey Ranicd, No I haven't spoken to him but he is aware of what is on this board but chooses to stay out of it, a wise choice I might add.
I don't like speaking to people in that 'type' situation as all you hear is bull**** justification and I haven't really been in the mood for all that.
Robbo