The end of the world is nigh (well our world)

[webby]

Look in any science/geography textbook from 20 years ago. They all warned that world oil supplies would run out in 20years. It's been twenty years and we still have oil. In twenty years time I wouldn't be surprised if 'experts' are saying we only have 20 years worth of oil left.

IMO, cover as much desert as possible in solar electricity plants. No one needs desert, it's just a bunch of sand. I remember reading some article when I was back in school that only a small percentage of the Saharan desert would need to be converted into solar power plants in order to power the world.

Also, there's been a lot of advances in biofuels...which is one of the main reasons why potato and rice prices have increased recently, as producers have realised there's more money in growing rape or other biofuel plants than food crops.

 

[A-Dawg]

Markie your always the bearer of bad news.

I think we should all move to the moon tbh.

 

[Hawkins]

Fortunatly hydrogen can be made in a lab.. Hydrogen makes a bang ten times bigger then any fossil fuel making it much more efficient and lets do some chemistry

H + 02 = h2o the only outcome is a bang and water no carbon dioxide...

the only problem with hydrogen is that it makes a bang 10 time bigger than petrol so storing it in large quantities is a hazardous job...
I beleive the clever scientists are trying to oxidies in onto aluminium strips or some crap like that...
And with Honda releasing images and demos of their hydrogen fuel car the first bugger to figure out the storage problem is gonna be minted !

And even then all it takes to make hydrogen is a big plastic bucket with a lid and a dirty great big electrode so how many explosions in sheds are gonna happen once the cars hit the selves...

And heres where i got all my info from if you dont beleive me ..

God himself

 

[snax]

I think we should all move to the moon tbh.

with all of that moon moving equipment weve got lol

 

[Devrij]

I'm just gonna throw this out there: Nuclear Fusion. Infinite source of fuel in the form of deuterium (which is a naturally occurring isotope found in the ocean), waste is only radioactive for decades rather than millenia, and the byproduct is just water. No meltdowns because the reaction can be stopped by not putting in further atoms to be squished together (don't believe everything you see in spiderman 2) Large amounts of energy produced, no expensive drilling. All we need to do is make it work properly. Screw all the turbines and solar panels, nuclear fusion is where it's at. More funding I say! Then all we have to do is change our entire infrastructure to accomodate electricity instead of oil: easy peasy

 

[Devrij]

the only problem with hydrogen is that it makes a bang 10 time bigger than petrol so storing it in large quantities is a hazardous job...

Oh yeah, hydrolysis required to produce hydrogen requires electricity: where's that gonna come from? Burning hydrogen? Conservation of energy laws might let you down there. Also, the big problem with storing hydrogen comes from the fact that since it's the smallest atom around, it leaks through the molecular structure of anything you try to contain it with like water through sand.

 

[Cook$]

When I rule the world, my power plants are going to be fuelled by fear.

 

[Rider]

Fortunatly hydrogen can be made in a lab.. Hydrogen makes a bang ten times bigger then any fossil fuel making it much more efficient and lets do some chemistry

H + 02 = h2o the only outcome is a bang and water no carbon dioxide...

the only problem with hydrogen is that it makes a bang 10 time bigger than petrol so storing it in large quantities is a hazardous job...
I beleive the clever scientists are trying to oxidies in onto aluminium strips or some crap like that...
And with Honda releasing images and demos of their hydrogen fuel car the first bugger to figure out the storage problem is gonna be minted !

And even then all it takes to make hydrogen is a big plastic bucket with a lid and a dirty great big electrode so how many explosions in sheds are gonna happen once the cars hit the selves...

And heres where i got all my info from if you dont beleive me ..

God himself

almost, but not quite - not a chemist are you? lol!

the equation is:

H2 + 1/2O2 --> H2O

the energy per mole of hydrogen (2g) is massive compared to that of say petrol (around 120g dependant on blend)

but the energy per litre is sh!t - 2g of hydrogen has a volume of around 23l at STP, compared to less than 1.5l for 120g of petrol.

the problem arises when you consider the sheer volume of hydrogen gas that would need to be burned to get you anywhere near the distance of a petrol car with even a small 40l fuel tank. the way around this is to pressurise and cool the hydrogen to liquify it. this is hugely expensive in terms of energy and the actual HP tank required to store and insulate the stuff. not to mention the word HINDENBURG - a very good reason for going nowhere near cars with gaseous hydrogen.

this is where the fuel cells come in, they use hydrogen IONS rather than MOLECULES. thus the hydrogen (to think of it simply) is in a stable, inert, safe form (as part of a compound in liquid/solution depending on cell design).

your general observation about the ease of hydrogen production is also correct. hydrogen gas can be produced by simply passing a whopping electricla discharge through water. but the gas is no use as a fuel source. electochemical proceses are required to provide a source of hydrogen ions to use as the actual "hydrogen" fuel, and this is one of the technological barriers to commercial availability (they are available, just not to you and me ). teh other barrier is the actual voltage/current outputs are currently not overly impressive - enough to power little bits of low voltage, low power electronics, but not enough to power a set of large electric motors.

 

[Rider]

Oh yeah, hydrolysis required to produce hydrogen requires electricity: where's that gonna come from? Burning hydrogen? Conservation of energy laws might let you down there. Also, the big problem with storing hydrogen comes from the fact that since it's the smallest atom around, it leaks through the molecular structure of anything you try to contain it with like water through sand.

this is why the hydrogen that is used is not in its elemental form - and it exists as diatomic molecules - not single atoms anyway.

the idea is to use other alternative fuels to provide the electrical energy for the ELECTROLYSIS

[geeky chemistry teacher speak]

(ELECTROLYSIS: breaking a compound by passing an electrical current through its solution or melt)

(HYDROLYSIS: breaking of a large molecule into 2 or more smaller molecules by the chemical integration of water....eg: breaking up fats into acids and glycerol.requires the addition of 3 molecules of water per fat molecule, the water becomes chemically bonded to the acids and glycerol)

[/geeky chemistry teacher speak]

 

[Devrij]

this is why the hydrogen that is used is not in its elemental form - and it exists as diatomic molecules - not single atoms anyway.

the idea is to use other alternative fuels to provide the electrical energy for the ELECTROLYSIS

[geeky chemistry teacher speak]

(ELECTROLYSIS: breaking a compound by passing an electrical current through its solution or melt)

(HYDROLYSIS: breaking of a large molecule into 2 or more smaller molecules by the chemical integration of water....eg: breaking up fats into acids and glycerol.requires the addition of 3 molecules of water per fat molecule, the water becomes chemically bonded to the acids and glycerol)

[/geeky chemistry teacher speak]

Yeah that's what I meant I'm suitably embarrassed now, but hey, at least you know I didn't google it! Also, well pointed out that hydrogen exists as H2, I totally forgot about that. So you're suggesting we use turbines, geothermal, etc. to produce the electricity needed for the electrolysis to produce hydrogen, which we then use to power electric motors? I still think that leaves us with a defficiency in electricity to power the millions of computers/lighting/etc that we're so reliant on these days. To use the hydrogen to produce electricity to use on electrolysis wouldn't work due to conservation of energy (not to mention huge energy losses through the process), so we're still back to looking for a reliable practical source of electricity (Nuclear Fusion) which could power the worlds electronics AND the mass electrolysis to power engines.

EDIT: sorry, just re-read who posted what. Was replying to wrong poster