technologically speaking whats next?

[manike]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
More Durable hoppers could happen anytime, although there is a balance point with something like that, where you have to find the ideal compromise between good reputation for reliability and something that won't last forever (so that replacements/ parts still sell).

People always think we build in planned obsolescence. We don't.

Honestly we'd rather things like hopper never broke. I could make one that never broke, but I doubt people would pay the money. We have new drive cones coming for the loaders which are far less likely to break, I have new lid designs which are easier to assemble and less likely to break, I have new shell designs with less stress points etc....

We don't make much off the spare parts and it's not worth the cost once you take into account logisitics and warranty cost. If I could make parts last longer I would... and am.

Paul, I want one, save me one. I'll save my pennies.

 

[MrPink]

So, hypothetically (sp) speaking - what would an "indestructable" Halo shell retail at?

 

[manike]

Well I have a friend willing to machine one completely out of your material of choice...

But say it was aluminium... I'm guessing with the cost of the billet, and the machine time, and programming time... a couple of thousand dollars.

But then nothing is 'indestructable' alluminium can still ding and fatigue.

I once had a lecture from one of the early pioneers of the jet engine. He discussed with us the energy in the blades and disk of the engine, and how much it could destroy if you lost blades, or worse the disk came apart under high RPM's. He was asked why we didn't armor and protect the planes against such things, and the answer was "you still want it to fly don't you?". Such an armored plane would be so heavy it would never take off.

The trouble is everyone wants things lighter, sometimes lighter does not make a stronger product. For instance the lighter loaders, like the Richochet, have thinner shells, but break more easily. The Halo is a TANK with thicker shells but weighs more. People complain about Richochet shells breaking and people complain about the halo being heavy.

Where's the middle ground? Admittedly I believe the halo can be lighter and still have the same strenght it currently has (or better), but if you could get stronger shells, would you pay more and put up with more weight?

No-one in paintball is ever happy.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Where's the middle ground? Admittedly I believe the halo can be lighter and still have the same strenght it currently has (or better), but if you could get stronger shells, would you pay more and put up with more weight?

No-one in paintball is ever happy.

Without suggesting anything untoward about Halo-type bodies it seems to me that anecdotally at least the real problem area is metal to plastic interfaces. While you sometimes see broken lids--side question; what is the tolerance for out of round of the hopper opening or does it simply vary due to the injection process?--and outer sleeves on the neck mostly it's battery lids and interior plastic surfaces that crack when nuts and bolts are over-tensioned. Is that correct or just a curiosity of my observations?

What about a Poly-carb? I actually assumed that's what the shells were but was told probably not given the fact they stress fracture at certain points.

I'm merely curious and you'll see why in HB. And of course I have at least 5 Halo/Empire loaders.

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Without suggesting anything untoward about Halo-type bodies it seems to me that anecdotally at least the real problem area is metal to plastic interfaces.

Absolutely. That's where people overtighten or don't assemble correctly (battery doors are aweful for this) and then crank down thinking the nuts and bolts have to be very tight. It's where stress locations are, (feedneck to loader neck) etc.

Originally posted by Baca Loco
what is the tolerance for out of round of the hopper opening or does it simply vary due to the injection process?

Never looked into it. As long as the snap fit of the lid has been good I've never had to look at the tolerancing in that area. It's not been an issue for us lately. I think we have the fit and lid feel pretty good right now? You will absolutely get some twisting and movement of the plastic in that area due to the shape of the shells and the release from the tool. Trying to make something fit in that area?

Originally posted by Baca Loco
and outer sleeves on the neck mostly it's battery lids and interior plastic surfaces that crack when nuts and bolts are over-tensioned. Is that correct or just a curiosity of my observations?

Absolutely correct. It's a combination of bad design areas on the original body (which is after all nearly 6 years old now), and with user error. Cracked battery doors are almost always due to people not fitting the battery box correctly (by moving the wires to the side) and/or from tightening that screw down far more than ever needed.

Originally posted by Baca Loco
What about a Poly-carb? I actually assumed that's what the shells were but was told probably not given the fact they stress fracture at certain points.

The shells are polycarbonate. It's not as perfect a material as the manufacturers and theoretical designers would like you to think. Polycarbonate actually propogates cracks and stress locations very easily. But is much more impact resistant in others if designed and manufactured correctly.

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I'm merely curious and you'll see why in HB. And of course I have at least 5 Halo/Empire loaders.

Of course you are.

HB or Texas PSP? I'll hopefully be in Texas, but not sure about HB right now...

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by manike
Never looked into it. As long as the snap fit of the lid has been good I've never had to look at the tolerancing in that area. It's not been an issue for us lately. I think we have the fit and lid feel pretty good right now? You will absolutely get some twisting and movement of the plastic in that area due to the shape of the shells and the release from the tool. Trying to make something fit in that area?

HB or Texas PSP? I'll hopefully be in Texas, but not sure about HB right now...

Not trying.

Then I'll see you in Texas and be happy to explain.

PS--was supposed to be Texas but came up against it time-wise as a production characteristic wasn't fully recognized as relevant until too late. HB will be a bigger deal anyway.

 

[manike]

Cool.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by Wadidiz

Obviously this is either uninteresting, needs explaining or both. This is a crude Photoshop concept of a compact gun with a bottom-feeding magazine. IMO gun design today's guns are archaic in design. They have poor balance and poor ergonomics with hoppers way up in the air (even with low-profile feed necks) plus they put the magazine in a place that makes them target number one.

If a design could be worked out technically (there was a gun, I think called TAG, that did this years ago but I don't know how fast or reliable it was) then I think you would have a gun that rules because it would be more compact and maneuverable. The gun's user would probably increase their accuracy and get hit a lot less.

Am I wrong?

 

[Mario]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Obviously this is either uninteresting, needs explaining or both. This is a crude Photoshop concept of a compact gun with a bottom-feeding magazine. IMO gun design today's guns are archaic in design. They have poor balance and poor ergonomics with hoppers way up in the air (even with low-profile feed necks) plus they put the magazine in a place that makes them target number one.

If a design could be worked out technically (there was a gun, I think called TAG, that did this years ago but I don't know how fast or reliable it was) then I think you would have a gun that rules because it would be more compact and maneuverable. The gun's user would probably increase their accuracy and get hit a lot less.

Am I wrong?

now i get it....

i thought it was piss take.

 

[ollytheosteo]

They're still around;

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/animation.htm

not sure how well they work though- the old ones were wet confetti makers but they may have sorted the design. Only holds 25 balls before you need some kind of bulk feed though