Sponsorship post. Controversial?

[sjt19]

I have been thinking about this for a few days, and despite the fact that it will piss a few people off, im gonna post anyway. My thoughts have been about sponsorship, and the huge gulf in the Euro vs USA pro team sponsorship issue.

In my opinion the novice teams in Europe should not get as much sponsorsip/help from sponsors as they do. The sponsoorship should be taken away from them for next season and redistributed among the top 10 or so pro teams in Europe. Thois would alow the pros to compete on a more level footing with the pros inthe States and ultimately give them far more resources with whoch to raise the standard of Euro Ball.

I dont think that teams who play at a lower standard should get as much sponsorship as they do, if any. If you want the backing, then get good, and earn it by playing pro.

i realise that this will annoy many players form the lower ranks, but i really feel that this is the way to go. Many people's argument will be that balling would be too expensive to play if they did not get some help from the industry. My answer to that would be, well thats life. People need to have more of an incentive to strive for the top, and the top players in Europe need to have more of a reward for being the top players by allowing them to play more events, train more against each other

Expecting the flames, but thoughts please?

 

[L J]

my thoughts:

ok, at first its a good idea because it gives our pro teams a little less baggage to carry when doing foreign tournament and means we could compete more etc, but then, it leaves our novice teams with a severe disadvantage as alot of new teams that really want to get into it are young people, who cant afford to play as much, and if they lose sponsorship, then they cant really progress aswell, thus slowing, the inevitable growth of paintball in the UK, i think, companys just need to take a few risks, and support our pro teams more, and the risk would be wether they benefit from it or not, which they would, just look at Nexus!! 4th at campaign!!! so give the pros more support, but keep the novice support

p.s. sorry, i havent heard about paragraphs

 

[Hotpoint]

Think of the Future

Gotta disagree here mainly because I think you've drawn the wrong conclusions as to why the US outperforms Europe

More than anything else the differential is down to recruiting base and cost. There are far more players in the US than in Europe and even more importantly those masses of American players participate far more often

If you were to cut support for Novice Teams all you would do is limit the numbers who can afford to play still further. This would reduce the already tiny pool of available players and screw over the entire European paintball scene for years to come

 

[Gyroscope]

Yep.

And this is a place where Europe has a chance to catch up.

It is getting very difficult for lower ranked teams to get sponsor support here. I am told that paint deals are mostly available only to teams that have retail outlets, sort of a bonus for being a distributor for the paint companies. This makes a great deal of sense for the paint companies, since they can directly relate the cost of sponsorship to the profit it generates.

If low end sponsorship dries up here, you have a chance to build that talent base into skilled players over time. With the US devoting less money to maintaining that lead for the years to (maybe we don't need to, since people are playing anyway), you have the opportunity to close some of the gap created by your smaller base, by increasing it as companies here do less to increase ours.

 

[Dark Warrior]

You have to invest in the lower teams of else teams like Shockwave have no future. Where would the premiership be without the lower divisions and the schools of excellence..

 

[garycarrot]

Its the smaller teams and "punters" who are paying for the "pros" to play this sport.
Who else is buying all the paint and gear from the sponsors??

Just because a "sponsor" helps and smaller team doesnt mean that dont get anything back.

If you agree to a paint sponsorship, you buy their paint for the whole season, so they do get a lot of sales from you. So its give and take.

If a sponsor agrees to give you a discount, you are still buying kit from them.

Its only the "pros" who get things for no cost. They repay the sponsorship by being the best in the world, and showcasing the sponsors wares.

Yes the smaller teams should get some help. If we didnt, a lot of players could not play.

Just my 2p worth.

 

[Tom Tom]

OK Sam,

First Question are you classing yourselves in the top 10 of europes pro teams and So just think you as a team are entitled to more Sponsorship to take on the big boys of the US?

Or do you think you should lose all your sponsorship to help the other Euro teams progress?

I can see the point of view you try to establish, build up the best, generate interest in european ball. Expansion of the lower levels only after the top flight are playing and getting the results.

As also has been mentioned the other side of the coin.

No Am or Nov teams can afford to play or train on a regular basis and so the Pros have no people to help strenghtn the team. (Look at Nexus, taken from many other teams (OK through set days) but they fed off younger talent)

I think some funds need to be avaliable to lower teams but can see the point in helping the top euro teams with more funding and more time and effort devoted to taking on the Americans

 

[Robbo]

Sam, I don't think there is a significant degree of sponsorship going on with the novices as you suggest.
A lot of teams like to imply they have sponsorship because it elevates their status if they tag themselves as 'sponsored'.
In reality, it is much more likely they get discounted prices, which most teams are able to negotiate to some degree.
It's not just novice teams who do this, all levels of teams have indulged in this exaggeration.

Also, the responsibility for Europe's pro standard is not the US Industry's. They don't give two monkeys for any relative standard of play with the Americans unless that Euro team happens to stake its arena of play in the States., think about it !!!
Why the hell are we thinking they do care ?
If we wanna improve with respect to the US, I'm afraid we can't appeal to the American Paintball industry to help us out, it makes no sense.
We have to do it ourselves, it's gonna be hard because everything is against us but who said 'life was fair' ?
Our options are limited !
To become truly competitive with the top American teams is no longer within the realms of the vast majority of Euro teams.
There are so many things that have to be in place for this to happen : talent base of roster, finances, dedication of players in terms of time and commitment, knowledge and capability of coach and so on.
The sport of paintball has now undergone such a sea change in the last five years that has left traditional approaches and doctrines floundering.
Getting a few extra boxes of paint ain't gonna do sh!te.
There are very few player rosters in Europe, that even if the rest of the jigsaw was in place could begin to compete, a hard fact for us to swallow but nevertheless true.
I am not saying we can't get more teams up there with the likes of the Legion, Ton Tons and co but you would have to approach it in a totally different way.
I think in all honesty, you could probably get another 5 teams up there if you pruned a lot of our top teams now, replaced the weak players with talented and dedicated individuals from other am and novice teams.
You don't need vast amounts of financial input; talent and dedication is much more important at this stage because if you know what you are doing, (that last point being the most important) then it's just a matter of training and time.
Now to illustrate this point in case you think I am bullsh!tting or exaggerating, I will use somebody from my team.
Snap shooting is an integral part of our game, Jamie Abbott took what I had taught him and instead of waiting for our next training session to practice, he took a box of paint with him, and spent hours and hours practicing the basic movement over many months.
He even blindfolded himself whilst he practiced to make sure he got the action I wanted him to have.
I ain't gonna go into why this blindfolding made it better as far as achieving this technical Holy Grail but suffice to say the degree of dedication he displayed quickly spread amongst the team.
Now the mechanics of the practicing of the snap shot does not need any paint (he, like others on the team practice many hours with no paint), so money is not an issue here, it's all about dedication, hard work and doing the right thing.
So let's stop thinking money (sponsorship) is the only issue here, it's not the most important, not by a long way.
We, as Euros, need to focus on what's truly important if we want to compete at the top and stop barking up the wrong tree lest we run the risk of doing only that.
We can achieve a much better standard of play if we work hard and in the right direction with the right raw materials, thinking that improvemnt is based solely upon sponsorship is wrong, just plain wrong.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Tom Tom

First Question are you classing yourselves in the top 10 of europes pro teams and So just think you as a team are entitled to more Sponsorship to take on the big boys of the US?

Or do you think you should lose all your sponsorship to help the other Euro teams progress?

I dont play pro, so no i wouldnt even dream of classing myself in the topp 10 pro teams in Europe.

As for your second question, selfishly no, but realisticly yes.

Hotpoint i'm not talking about the increased number of players that the US has, merely how can Europe catch up fast. The simple answer is to train more and play more events like Nexus have done, but the NPPL's cost money and many teams can afford to play it as well as the Millenniums and train. Nexus is the exception rather than the rule. The best way to give the top Euro pros every chance to get to where the States are is to give them more sponsorship, if that is to become the case then the lower teams must sacrifice their sponsorship.

Cockers, if people love the sport then they will make sacrifices. Get a job if your young, i had to and so do/did a lot of my friends. The ultimate thing it comes down to is that balling is expensive, everyone knows that, if you cant hack it then dont play, otherwise find a way to play by getting a steady income of cash.

Robbo, are you saying that with the same kind of training that the Legion, Nexus and the Ton Tons do, the likes of the Ugly Ducklings, Tigers, Joy Division, etc couldnt get to a position where they could compete in the States? What is stopping them do this is that they cant afford to do it. The Ducklings are not playing Miami cos they have no team cash left (as Broccolli said a few days ago). If they had the increased sponsorship they could afford to do so and would improve as Nexus, Legion and Ton Ton have improved.

There needs to be a lot lessof 'I just started playing paintball, what can i get at a discount or for free' and more earning and paying their dues to get into a position where they deserve to be sponsored.

 

[Liz]

Originally posted by sjt19

In my opinion the novice teams in Europe should not get as much sponsorsip/help from sponsors as they do. The sponsoorship should be taken away from them for next season and redistributed among the top 10 or so pro teams in Europe. Thois would alow the pros to compete on a more level footing with the pros inthe States and ultimately give them far more resources with whoch to raise the standard of Euro Ball.

I dont think that teams who play at a lower standard should get as much sponsorship as they do, if any. If you want the backing, then get good, and earn it by playing pro.

Depends on what you mean by "as much sponsorship". The vast majority of novice sponsorship deals consist of a case or two of paint free per month (and not even that in many cases), plus a discounted rate for the paint which is still a good sight more than even a small site pays. The sponsors are still making a profit in this situation - maybe not as much as they would make selling it to these same teams at the standard retail rate but they do get guaranteed sales to these teams, rather than the teams buying different makes every time depending on the best deal on the day.
The same thing goes for kit sponsorship. It's very rare indeed for small teams to get all freebies from their sponsor, more a discount which still leaves the price well above cost. Again, the sponsor gets the advantage of a whole team buying their product rather than only one or two members. Most retailers would rather sell 10 items with 10% profit than 2 at 20% if the effort and cost of selling them was similar.

Another thing to consider. Many of the more novice teams with a better-than-average sponsorship deal are those who act as feeder teams for the Pros, and get this deal through their association with these Pro teams. Now all Pro teams need to replace members to a greater or lesser degree, both through players moving to other teams or just natural "wastage" due to age, money etc. Giving the feeder team a good deal means that they can attract more players and can pick and choose who joins, ensuring a better quality of player ready to move up to the Pro team when needed.
A good example of this is the Tigers - they lost much of their Pro squad a few years back but as they had been able to build a good Am team Pete Martin just promoted most of this squad up to the first team. A couple of years down the line and they were back winning at international level! Now if they had had no support from the industry to build a non-Pro squad then they wouldn't have had a full team of players ready to step up who were used to the way the Tigers played and could blend in with the remainder of the original Pro team.

I can see your point entirely though. A paint sponsor like RPS supports just a small handfull of teams but because of this can offer very generous support to teams like Nexus - split that between 20-30 novice/Am teams and you're unlikely to make a potential world beating team. I know that many of the major paint manufacturers are thinking of reducing the amount of support available to lower level teams in the next year, though whether this will be partially balanced by increased support for the top level teams remains to be seen.

NO novice team deserves sponsorship - it has to be earned. I've heard many novice teams trying to say that just because they have a couple of results under their belts (and I mean only a couple) after over a year of trying , then they should get enough paint to cover their needs for at least one tournament a month plus training, or something equally ridiculous. Well I've got news for them - try calculating just how many extra cases of paint those 2 wins mean their sponsor will sell, multiply that by about £2 (or whatever the profit on a case of paint is), and that gives you what they have "earned" by those wins. Not a lot, is it? And when some of those novice teams don't even seem to be prepared to show loyalty to the sponsor who has been helping them their value to the sponsor goes down even more.
OK, bijou rant over. But this is a subject dear to my heart that I've though quite a lot about recently, so Sam's post that started this thread was quite timely.