Speed 05 .... wow

[Parksy]

Its all a matter of opinion really.

Like Stongle I have owned pretty much every single marker out there

I hated the IR3 (my first Angle experience) but decided to give them another try and got a JD Fly. Have to say it is the nicest marker I have owned. Find it feels a lot more 'well built' than say my Warped Timmy.

I do agree though that WDP need to stop releasing markers at the rate they do. It causes the previous models (that in some cases are only a few months old) to crash in resale value, making you wonder why you should pay £1000 for a marker that will depreciate by 50% with weeks!! I'm all for companys improving things but don't think you have to release a whole new model when you improve one or two small items.

The one thing I do like about Angels though is they are good to go out of the box, and don't really require any after market bits thrown on like say a timmy to get them to perform acceptably like an adjustable ram cap or hard ball detents (I know some don't).

My 2ps'

 

[Ben Frain]

As already said, it's horses for courses.

However, the BIG thing for me with Angels is reliability. They just don't go down. I know there is always the odd one that has a problem but in the vast majority, switch it on and it works faultlessly. No tweaking, no lubing or checking. Perfect if you can't be bothered to feck about with your marker for an hour before every tournament to get it working to it's optimum.

I also like the fact that they come out with new ones every six months or so. Nobody makes us upgrade!!

The original Speed is over 18 months old. The Angel 4 is 12 months old. The Angel 4 Fly (about 6 months old??) was basically just a Angel 4 with eyes and a few cosmetic changes and it's name refelected that.

 

[John C]

Originally posted by stongle
It still is. I don't see the big wow. I've shot one, and to my mind was no different to a Fly or a Euro Speed. Seems to be forum users hyping up products again.

I think WDP concentrate far too much on producing a gun that is jack of all trades and master of none, furthermore this is echoed in the milling / body design which is putting it politely, conventional. Toss in a subjective user interface, and these guns either appeal to existing Angel Owners comfortable with the set-up, or those looking for a middle of the road gun. This safely safely approach, is less likely to appeal to both the more emotive and aspirational in their tastes.

The lower price point maybe a plus, but with new editions coming out frequently these have a downward effect on 2nd hand prices. It is then bought by newish players on the basis of Internet & player hype and gains a bit of a numpty image (through wild claims of ROF and accuracy built upon by inexperience). The numpty image is probably something WDP can do little about. However allowing the resale value of the guns to crash is very bad business sense, and to an extent rinsing out the customer base. Yet again Paintball companies should be looking beyond each other for business idea's and emulating some of the ideas used in the automotive industry.

The Speed 05 in this case represents a pleasing, if not an exceptional product. Personally I'll reserve WOW for the shooting experience of Dm4s or Alias Platform Intimidators. For all their faults (and there are many), when working they reward the user with a much greater shooting experience, be it ROF, accuracy, whatever the users preference.

Horses for courses

Wow Stongle

You have some really silly points even for you!!


Jack of all trades?
What trades are there except the paintball coming out of the barrel?

What do you expect it to do to break convention? Its a paintball gun not an exhibit at the tate gallery!


Also anyone who thinks 'shooting experience' is a factor of performance anywhere other than in peoples heads then they should stay out of the techroom!!!

 

[Collier]

Different trades;

Efficiency
Rof
kick
consistancy
Ergonomics/Weight

Off the top of my head.

I think in terms of image the Angel is less 'hard' then guns like the Timmy but the build quality is soooooo much better.
Still can't really comment on performance as I have no chrono and have only shot reball through it so far.
At this moment I do have some concerns performance wise regarding the following;
a) Detents
b) Consistancy
c) FSDO
But as a say I'm effectivly blind at the moment till I get paint and a chrono...

Paul.

 

[Collier]

In terms of 'shooting experiences' when I first shot a WAS boarded Viking with a Halo that think blew me away completely. Now that kind of speed and reliabilty of spitting paint out the barrel is the norm you have to look to other areas for 'wow' Dm4, so so smooth and no kick but shocking efficiency. Alias, super lightweight but also feels like it was built in a taiwan sweat shop.

Paul.

 

[stongle]

Originally posted by John C
Wow Stongle

You have some really silly points even for you!!


Jack of all trades?
What trades are there except the paintball coming out of the barrel?

What do you expect it to do to break convention? Its a paintball gun not an exhibit at the tate gallery!


Also anyone who thinks 'shooting experience' is a factor of performance anywhere other than in peoples heads then they should stay out of the techroom!!!

Really John, go back and read the thread. We've had blanket coverage of the "WOW" factor of the speed 05, and nothing impartial. As soon as someone dares criticise or not bow down at the alter of WDP or other false prophets people throw their toys out the pram.

WOW to me implies something special, unfortunately I don't see what's so special about this incarnation. It does what you say, puts bullets out the front, but it's not as smooth as a Dm4, nor as easy to interface (or moreover get to instantly rip) with as an Intimidator. Such factors are largely subjective (if you read carefully you may have noticed I acknowledged that). I've even admitted both guns are deeply flawed (build quality, cost, efficiency etc), but user perception is massively important to sales and the majority of marker sales are not off the back of techno babble. It probably is better built and more reliable, but not necessarily the most rewarding (bit like buying a car on safety and build over handling and performance). People have different priorities when buying guns (just like cars), I thought it was a good product (much better than previous incarnations), but I did'nt think WOW as my priorities are different.

Oh, I don't think people who have thrown 1000's away in depreciation on WDP guns will quite see the comments about their resale value as being silly do you?. Take a look in classifieds. This is the direct result of oversupply and the image. Read the numpty ROF comments, peak or "bounce" ROF may sound useful on paper or be indicative of performance, but "sustained" or usable ROF, is much more important. How easy it is to hit "sustained" ROF is going to be determined by user interface, ergonomics and perception. If you have a mathematical equation for that, I'd greatly receive it.

This type of product hyping is very dangerous as Paintball companies (all) have shown an amazing capacity to sit back rely on this and peddle poor quality goods.

P.S. my house, I'll go where I want.

 

[Beaker]

Stongle is talking some sense for once.

If you compared the '05 speed to the old LCD - yeah WOW factor in spades. Compare it to the Fly which has been out a year then there can't be much WOW, it simply isn't different enough.

Other than the grip - which is purely an ergonomic experience not a bullets out the front one - the marker is to all intents and purposes the same gun as a Fly.

Is it a good gun, yeah, is it radically different from the last version - well not really.

Shooting a marker is subjective, range is (often) subjective as is ROF - just look at cockers.

 

[Tom Allen]

When i moved up from my LCD to an A4, the difference was immense. Well you would expect that, because of the major improvements in design. And when i changed to the A4 fly, i could feel the improvement, and the change from sensi to eyes made all the difference.
I didn't feel the need to change my A4 fly to the speed, even with the revamped design. That was until i shot one, and this is where the "wow" comes in. This marker feels so good, and in my view.....

WOW..!!

This may not be the "wow" level you require, but to improve a fantastic marker like the A4 fly, and get this is indeed worthy in my eyes.

PS. I feel that my initial post was fairly subjective.

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by Beaker


Other than the grip - which is purely an ergonomic experience not a bullets out the front one

I'd argue that an ergonomic change can and in this case I believe does make a differance regarding bullets out the front.

I'd say the speed is as easy to rip on as my alias was!

Paul

 

[Beaker]

Originally posted by Collier
I'd argue that an ergonomic change can and in this case I believe does make a differance regarding bullets out the front.

I'd say the speed is as easy to rip on as my alias was!

Paul

That is the definition of ergonomics I agree with you, being how advanced they are most of the battle with top end guns being "faster" is the feel/weight/length/pivot etc of trigger.

I meant to convey that the ergonomic changes don't have any impact of the bullets in imperical terms, such as velocity, consistantcy, ball breakage, mechanical ROF etc.

So if someone says "the '05 is sooo much faster than a Fly" I disagree, if they say "I find the '05 trigger much easier to shoot than the 'old' style" I think yeah thats cool, more power to them.

Tom - your posts can be objective and you are obviously very knowledgable, but sometimes you being a fan of WDP gets phrased as cold hard fact, which can be misleading.