Some questions...

[tukisilva]

By Nick Brockdorff:

The only thing that can piss me off in this debate, is when players that would not have felt an inkling of difference, no matter what format the Pros play, start complaining...... because whatever format had been chosen, it would have been Pro vs pro only in 2004 - that was established months ago.
That probably sound arrogant (it's late and I'm tired) - but I just feel this whole debate is heated enough with team members of the involved teams, mods and MS officials going at it, without having people who have no vested interest in the matter, voice complaints that have nothing to do with them.
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->First you said that its ok if the “little fish” pay for the EXL.
Now you say “little fish” shouldn’t complain about EXL.

Pay and shut up????????????????
I’ve seen better arguments from you…

I am moaning about this “Pros Club” since first smoke appeared in the horizon

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20946&perpage=15&highlight=pros&pagenumber=3

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26459&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

But anyway, I surrender and by now the only thing I really don’t want to lose it’s the US 7man Teams and my money going to the “Sharks”.

This all thing would never happened if instead of keeping the secret the Teams were officially informed (months ago) that the EXL was a strong possibility, and what would be the criteria to chose the Elite Teams.

Cheers

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by tukisilva
By Nick Brockdorff:

The only thing that can piss me off in this debate, is when players that would not have felt an inkling of difference, no matter what format the Pros play, start complaining...... because whatever format had been chosen, it would have been Pro vs pro only in 2004 - that was established months ago.
That probably sound arrogant (it's late and I'm tired) - but I just feel this whole debate is heated enough with team members of the involved teams, mods and MS officials going at it, without having people who have no vested interest in the matter, voice complaints that have nothing to do with them.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

->First you said that its ok if the “little fish” pay for the EXL.
Now you say “little fish” shouldn’t complain about EXL.

Pay and shut up????????????????
I’ve seen better arguments from you…

I am moaning about this “Pros Club” since first smoke appeared in the horizon

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20946&perpage=15&highlight=pros&pagenumber=3

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26459&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

But anyway, I surrender and by now the only thing I really don’t want to lose it’s the US 7man Teams and my money going to the “Sharks”.

This all thing would never happened if instead of keeping the secret the Teams were officially informed (months ago) that the EXL was a strong possibility, and what would be the criteria to chose the Elite Teams.

Cheers

Tuk, there was no secrecy involved whatsoever.
Up until a few weeks back the plan was to have an integrated world series. This was to be a joint effort between the NPPL and the Millennium series. This proposal was initiated at a meeting with Sergey, Ged Green, Niall, myself and Beard back in November I think.
Rough plans began to take shape with various peoples, like Steve Morris, Nick Brockdorf and others all sending in ideas with regards to format etc.
What lay at the heart of this initiative was a belief by Sergey and subsequently the rest of us at that meeting that unless the Europeans got their act together very quickly we would lose out all on the world scene with regard to televised paintball as the NXL had already been hooked up.
At that time there was no provision for XBall to include the Euros in anything other than a league over here with no TV hook ups whatsoever.
We were being asked to take Xball and run with it ourselves; there was little chance of any Euro success with XBall under these conditions as the demographics over here are so different.
That acknowledged, the MS Board decided that Sergey's proposals made sense and all steps were made to try and get this World Series up and running for 2004.
Crucial to this development was the format change that Sergey advised us we make because it would make it more conducive to the spectator and would be needed if we were going to go head to head with XBall, which in effect was exactly what we were proposing to do.
Chuck Hendsch, at the beginning if this month, then pulled the rug from under us all by refusing to entertain the idea of a changed format, he believed that if he did so, he would discourage amateur and novice teams from attending the NPPL events because they could not now play against the top pros.
This was a disastrous decision to make as it rang the death knell on any proposed union between the MS and the NPPL.
I called Chuck to tell him what would happen if he did not change his mind because two days later I knew Niall, Laurent and the rest of the MS gang were heading over to Toronto to see Richmond (first week in December I think).
I told Chuck that unless he changed his mind, it would open the back door for XBall to come into Europe.
Chuck did not change his mind.
What none could have known was the deal that Richmond now put on the table at that meeting.
He basically gave the Europeans everything they could have reasonably wanted in terms of potential TV uptake.
Dick Clark had been persuaded that the Euros deserved to be taken seriously (presumably by Richmond) and as a consequence of that, a deal is to be signed up in Feb where the TV rights for Europe are to be negotiated as well as the World Cup being televised where we are having out top four teams go up against the Yank top four.

Once Chuck had opened the door and Richmond had dived headlong in, it wasn't really all that surprising that the Millennium board would embrace such a proposal, after all, it had all the necessary ingredients for full acceptance.
It gave us Euros a foothold on the World TV map even though the leg on the end of that foot was American.
So, after that meeting in the first week in December, we have arrived at our present point.
So Tuk, no secrecy, no conspiracy, nothing sinister whatsoever, just a series of decisions that have consequences both good and bad, depending upon your point of view.

 

[Buddha 3]

Jay

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
When you lead into the debate asking med if I am completely insane - without a smiley in sight - you have to expect me to believe you to be serious.

And, I take offence at people calling me insane because they happen to have a different view.

Nick

Nick, read back. I apologised for that. Don't tell me you're gonna hold a grudge...

 

[Wadidiz]

Jay

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
...I take offence at people calling me insane because they happen to have a different view.

My, aren't we touchy!

 

[Takedown]

Originally posted by Robbo
Coz when you cut through all the bull**** in this, cut through all the perceived favouritism, self interest and so on, if you were to ask any person who knows what he is talking about, who he thought were the top 8 teams in Europe, the vast majority of them would come up with at least 7 of those 8 and if you imply any different , then you are a fool, if you agree, then what the hell is the first half of your post about.


The second half of your post I completely agree with !

Robbo, I believe you read to deep into my post. At no point do I believe that any one of the 8 teams shouldn't be there and I do not think there was favouritism that got them there, the results show that. I'm well aware of the time/effort/money that you and your team as well as the other top teams in Europe have put in and I'm not trying to take anything away from that. In fact I have given your team kudos all season long for making the trip over to the US and doing well for a first year pro team, better then a lot of our pro teams that have been around for longer then a season. You guys have also improved tremendously from that first game in Huntington Beach that we faced you. Your team has gone from the "I hope I draw them pro team", to the "oh **** we are going to have a difficult time in this game pro team". I should not have used the "Lucky 8" to describe your teams, it should have been the "Elite 8" or "Top 8" or "Chosen 8". The word lucky was not meant to be a cheap shot at your teams.

For just a second lets say the top 8 were reduced to the top 6, with the 2 nxl teams filling out the 8 spots. You know for a fact that people from those two teams that weren't included would not be defending the MS and would be looking for every which way to find negatives to the direction they are taking. My point was that based on what side a player is on, the inside (EXL) or outside (Divisional) that there motives and reaction to the MS decisions have a good chance of changing. I'm not saying YOU personally, I'm saying people on those teams that haven't exactly been looking at both sides of the coin. I think many of those players would not be so gung-ho if they were on the outside looking in.

Best of luck next season,
-Ron

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Takedown
Robbo, I believe you read to deep into my post. At no point do I believe that any one of the 8 teams shouldn't be there and I do not think there was favouritism that got them there, the results show that. I'm well aware of the time/effort/money that you and your team as well as the other top teams in Europe have put in and I'm not trying to take anything away from that. In fact I have given your team kudos all season long for making the trip over to the US and doing well for a first year pro team, better then a lot of our pro teams that have been around for longer then a season. You guys have also improved tremendously from that first game in Huntington Beach that we faced you. Your team has gone from the "I hope I draw them pro team", to the "oh **** we are going to have a difficult time in this game pro team". I should not have used the "Lucky 8" to describe your teams, it should have been the "Elite 8" or "Top 8" or "Chosen 8". The word lucky was not meant to be a cheap shot at your teams.

For just a second lets say the top 8 were reduced to the top 6, with the 2 nxl teams filling out the 8 spots. You know for a fact that people from those two teams that weren't included would not be defending the MS and would be looking for every which way to find negatives to the direction they are taking. My point was that based on what side a player is on, the inside (EXL) or outside (Divisional) that there motives and reaction to the MS decisions have a good chance of changing. I'm not saying YOU personally, I'm saying people on those teams that haven't exactly been looking at both sides of the coin. I think many of those players would not be so gung-ho if they were on the outside looking in.

Best of luck next season,
-Ron

Ron, u r probably right, I ain't even tried to see it from the other side coz I been too busy trying to defend the rationale for selecting the 8.
And you are right again when you say the teams and players of the 8 wouldn't be so gung-ho if we were on the other side of qualification.

Baldrick (Steve Baldwin) just called me while I was typing this lot out and I better now refer you to a post in MLT that I am now about to write to expand on a few things EXL
It gonna be entitled 'EXL PLans'

 

[badazz]

So, are there any restrictions in premier league, or can any team play it?