Some questions...

[gaff]

another angle on this that i think should be taken into account....

the EXL is an experiment really, yes Richmond has set it up in the states and all with the hope of a tv deal, he has speculated alot of time and money hopeing that he will be repaid several times over once the tv deal takes over! he stands to make a tidy few quid out of it (and so he should he has taken the gamble!)

but in Europe we have a committe of guys that have decided we are playing X-Ball (we some of us! ) allowing Richmond to spread his wings over the atlantic. now we are going to have to pay for this (we being the players in superleague, div 1, 2 and 3) if this takes off and tv deals start flying about are we gonna get our shares paid out? cos without our setup money none of this is at all possible.

i am liking this to a business, if i wanna setup an event management company say, and i wanna put on 9 events in 2004, i would have to write a business plan go see my bank manager and beg for some funding, give up my property and savings and offer a personnal quarantee that it will make money. if it does make money then me and my bank manager are both happy, if it fails i go down heavy! but in paintball us players are expected to fund these business ventures.

i am not writing this as a direct attack on the organisers of the MS, i am just pointing out that without us (the paying players) none of this is possible, and i do feel that we are somewhat forgotten about sometimes.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by BWillie
If the quality of the event drops to a level below which you are willing to pay money to play, then Laurent (and others) would have to make additional decisions on how to spend their money.

That's just the whole point. Entry fees have gone up not insignificantly, yet we get nothing more, perhaps less.

Originally posted by BWillie
There can only be a couple of reasons for comments such as:

"it would be the ultimate laugh if we (common mortals) have to pay or give any money to the EXL"

-- jealousy at not being the best, and a disdain for the fact that those who have achieved a higher standard of play are being rewarded for it.

From someone like yourself I would have expected something a little more insightful.
It has nothing to do with not wishing nothing but the best for these guys, ****, I consider some of them to be something like a friend. But in a real sports league, I would have the choice of wanting to pay a team's way or not, simply by buying their merchandise and the entry tickets or not. Here nothing of the sort is the case. I don't have a choice. Yes, I could "vote with my feet", and not play the Mill series, but what is the alternative? At the moment there is none.


Sam, don't break your arm patting yourself on the big for being "in"....

 

[Buddha 3]

Almost forgot...

Originally posted by BWillie
If this producer decides to use that money to promote an elite separate format, in hopes that it will attract TV, sponsorship, growth or whatever - it is his prerogative.

If the level of Millennium events remains the same, why would any of you care where the money for the EXL came from?

Does it make a difference whether Laurent took the money out of his Adrenaline account, or out of his 7-Man World Cup account? Both are his to spend as he sees fit.

Strange as it may be, it is not totally up to the promoter to spend the money as he sees fit. Not all promoters are on the board.
I know for a fact that some of them would rather see X-ball going then they would see it coming, for the simple reason that it's one less field they can use for teams who's entry fees go to the promoters instead of to the board (as in the EXL). Indeed, for some promoters the EXL is a distinctively large burden, both money and effort wise, with NO return whatsoever. Yet they HAVE to set it up, as per the millennium board's rules. So that argument doesn't really stand, does it? This ain't the US, Lane. What works over on your side, doesn't always fly over here.

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Buddha 3

Sam, don't break your arm patting yourself on the big for being "in"....

Am not in the slightest dude. I am lucky to be playing int he EXL next eyar, and i know that. But i do think that people have been quick to jump on the MS Board slating bandwagon, when there are far more constructive things to be said. I have seen post after post of people all saying the same thing, whilst Mak D may have been slightly offensive in what he said, and the way that he said it, i can see what he means. The board have made a gutsy decision, one that has unbelievable potential for the lucky 8 Euro teams that have Qualified for it,while simultaneously has severely restricting consequences on others. I do think that there is far mroe jealousy, negativity, and generla political backstabbing in paintball, and this is a major problem. Would the vocal members of teams that have been close to the qualification cut off be against the MS Boards decision if they had been included in the EXL? Of course not, and they are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. I think that the MS board does not owe anybody anything. Team loyalty to the Series for the last few years means jack ****, as all the teams have been loyal, and it is not as if teams have attended the MS events as part of a loyalty scheme. Teams have attended in the most part to play quality events, and win. The Board needed to break from the past in order to set up an appealing format of train crash paintball. There are always gonna be peeps that are left out, thats life, it always happens. I think that the brave decision by the board will benefit the Euro scene as a whole, with those benefits diffusing throughout all the levels of Euro ball.

And Buddha, i believe that there will be no Millennium Promoters in charge of events next year. There will be one person from the Millennium Series who will travel to every event and oversee/be in charge of everything that occurs there. As such, BWillie was correct, as he will be the one deciding where money is spent, and entries allocated.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by sjt19

And Buddha, i believe that there will be no Millennium Promoters in charge of events next year. There will be one person from the Millennium Series who will travel to every event and oversee/be in charge of everything that occurs there. As such, BWillie was correct, as he will be the one deciding where money is spent, and entries allocated.

I wouldn't put any money on that happening...It'll piss some people off mightily, and it'll make it impossible to have events in the countries concerned if that happens. It would make sense though of there was a person, or body of people that make sure, beforehand, that all events meet the required standards. It'll prevent another Portugal from happening.
As for the first part of your post, I agree with most of what you said. I just get a little riled up by people saying that those who question certain decisions, i.e. me, are just doing so because we are a bunch of jealous haters (not implying you said I was). If anything I wish all those involved nothing but the best of luck. It might make for an exciting league, it might not. But because it supposed to be outside of the series itself, it would be silly if it were funded with money paid by the series' participants. That's all I was saying. If I wanna pay to watch paintball, I'll buy a DVD.
And if I had to throw a personal point of view on it all, I don't feel that the decision made by the board are gutsy at all. If anything they remind me of Neville Chamberlain's appeasement policy. At first I felt that the plans as they first appeared on these boards were quite cool and gutsy, but then Richmond Italia caught wind of it, and started throwing his weight around after which some people started backing up. But that's just my view on things, abeit based on some knowledge that I guess most people on here aren't privvy to.

Anyway, the best of luck to Shockwave and the other teams. Did you punch Al and Chris yet?

 

[Mak D - Nexus Eclipse]

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Mak, give these guys a break. They have a right to voice their opinion, whether you agree with them or not.

Good point sorry folks

But since ur sayin it like that............. I was only voiceing my opinion so the same rules go for me

Mak D

 

[sjt19]

Originally posted by Buddha 3

As for the first part of your post, I agree with most of what you said. I just get a little riled up by people saying that those who question certain decisions, i.e. me, are just doing so because we are a bunch of jealous haters (not implying you said I was).

I wasnt implying that . I agree with you though, but there is a small majority who seem intent and hell bent on causing as much trouble as they can by flaming others, and then there are those who genuinely have legitimate questions/suggesstions about improvements that could be made to the existing series, to either modify it or better it.

Originally posted by Buddha 3
And if I had to throw a personal point of view on it all, I don't feel that the decision made by the board are gutsy at all. If anything they remind me of Neville Chamberlain's appeasement policy. At first I felt that the plans as they first appeared on these boards were quite cool and gutsy, but then Richmond Italia caught wind of it, and started throwing his weight around after which some people started backing up. But that's just my view on things, abeit based on some knowledge that I guess most people on here aren't privvy to.

Hmm....i genuinely think that the format that wil be the most successful, and the 'future' of paintball wil lbe the first format that makes it onto television, Be that Xball or 7man. Maybe the MS did not want to place all of their eggs in one basket and be left out in the cold if the series that they had aligned to was not the fotmat that hit the big time, whenever that will be?

Originally posted by Buddha 3
Anyway, the best of luck to Shockwave and the other teams. Did you punch Al and Chris yet?

Nah not yet, i felt sorry for the guys when Al totally got hammered last night, and threw up all night, and looked awful all day......he abused southern shandy drinkers all night.....but at least us southerners can handle our shandy.......and not throw up after 4 rolling rocks!

 

[Takedown]

Originally posted by sjt19
Would the vocal members of teams that have been close to the qualification cut off be against the MS Boards decision if they had been included in the EXL? Of course not, and they are kidding themselves if they think otherwise.

How about if some of the teams that are being included in the lucky 8 were not included afterall? You bet that there would be certain people up here blasting the MS non stop for their decisions and where the league is heading. Would those teams be so quick to defend the MS for there decisions? Of course not, and they are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. See both sides have there points and those points change based on how it effects their personal team.

The customers of the MS do have a right to post their opinions and they do have a right to be concerned about the direction of the league. Some people may not be able to see the potential these moves have and others may be blinded by the promises, which to this point have not been delivered on in the US (where Xball has already been played a full season). People should be skeptical about the MS and their decision to add Xball. This could have a very positive effect on ballers in Europe and it could also have a negative effect on those that attend the MS.

 

[Buddha 3]

Jay

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
No reason debating you, when you apparently are able to tell me what I meant.

Why don't you just go ahead an write my posts for me then - no reason for me to be involved.

Nick

Nick,

What I was getting at is that in your first post you said that it's normal that the lower leagues pay the costs for the top leagues, to which I protested. Then in your second post you say that the lower leagues pay for SOME of the costs. Perhaps you meant the latter in your original post as well, I don't know that, and I just interpreted it differently.
Jeez dude, what's up? It's not like you to get so worked up when someone doesn't agree with you, and all I did was just bounce your words back at you, I ain't attacking you or anything. Chill out homey. (must be the lack of sunlight this time of year up north )

 

[Robbo]

Originally posted by Takedown
How about if some of the teams that are being included in the lucky 8 were not included afterall? You bet that there would be certain people up here blasting the MS non stop for their decisions and where the league is heading. Would those teams be so quick to defend the MS for there decisions? Of course not, and they are kidding themselves if they think otherwise. See both sides have there points and those points change based on how it effects their personal team.

The customers of the MS do have a right to post their opinions and they do have a right to be concerned about the direction of the league. Some people may not be able to see the potential these moves have and others may be blinded by the promises, which to this point have not been delivered on in the US (where Xball has already been played a full season). People should be skeptical about the MS and their decision to add Xball. This could have a very positive effect on ballers in Europe and it could also have a negative effect on those that attend the MS.

Takedown, as this post is directed at me, I think I better answer it. You mention, if certain people in the lucky 8 were left out, how would they feel.
Well lemme tell you something first, I ain't lucky, Sergey ain't lucky, Magued and Laurent ain't lucky, Pete Martin and Matty Schmidt ain't lucky and so on.
We earned our fcuking stripes, we are the ones (well some of us) who went out and trained our fcuking balls off to make ourselves better players, we went out in the market place to bust our balls trying to get sufficient sponsorship to underpin our development as teams, we are the ones who made enormous sacrifices domestically and at work to go and play and improve our games.
That ain't luck Takedown, that's dedication and commitment, make no mistake about that.

The teams selected weren't the beneficiaries of luck or favour, they were the beneficiaries of having the most points because they were the best teams..end of !!!!!

And sure as hell we would moan like bitches if any of us were left out because what the hell rationale would you be using to select the top 8 ?
The worst 8 teams?
Teams that have the first letter of their names in the second half of the alphabet ??
What the hell criterion could you use to compile a league that is supposed to represent the best in Europe ?
Now instead of bitching about the teams who made it, your time would be better spent trying to work out why other teams didn’t make it i.e. why they just weren't good enough.

Coz when you cut through all the bull**** in this, cut through all the perceived favouritism, self interest and so on, if you were to ask any person who knows what he is talking about, who he thought were the top 8 teams in Europe, the vast majority of them would come up with at least 7 of those 8 and if you imply any different , then you are a fool, if you agree, then what the hell is the first half of your post about.


The second half of your post I completely agree with !