Sam??

[Missy Q]

Shamu is right on the money.
The reason he is right on the money is that he is talking from considerable experience reffing at the highest level. I for one bow to his greater experience at the sharp end and I think the rule is not only needed, but long overdue.

 

[Ralph]

Originally posted by shamu
So now we're blaming the goggle manufacturers? (just kidding)
What's so hard to understand about this? You may not like the new rule, which I can understand. But you seem to be pushing for an exception or loophole to the rule. Maybe so you can be "blissfully unaware" of getting hit?

I'm not pushing for an exception or a loophole so lets turn it on it's head and change the scene
A player takes a hit & he knows it. They also knows that if they stay on the blind side of the refs, the refs @ worst is going 2, 1-4-1 them.
So to my way of thinking more players are going to weigh up the chance's of taking a 1-4-1 and shooting out three oppo's than relying on a ref making a decision.

And it's that option for the ref to make a decision that has been removed.

 

[Ralph]

Originally posted by shamu
As other people have already said, it's not that difficult to tell when you've been hit.

In 99.9% of cases i would agree. No need for 99.9% of the Refs then ?

 

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
I will take a slightly different tack--
[*] on a separate (mostly irrelevant) issue it can, in truth, be difficult to know when you've been hit or even if you've been hit at all given the present level of padding allowed and some of the brittle top end paint in use.

Now were going into a really grey area

We've accepted that goggles can restrict the vision with regards to checking yourself.

The Padding is sufficient enough to enable you not to know that you've been hit

Some of the Top end paint is very brittle so the slightest impact will leave a mark but you would not feel it.

Are these designer cheats

 

[Beaker]

But regardless of whether you felt a hit or not - if you are in the game with a hit you are having an effect of that game that shouldn't be there and it needs redressing.

I don't care how much padding you have, if you get clipped on the break and ignore it and play you'd had an effect, you might not have hit anyone, you might have hit 3.

I fail to see the justification for leaving any discretion, as intent is immaterial to whether your prescence on the field had an effect. You can try and check yourself till the cows come home and "think" (or more likely decide) you're clean. By being in your bunker and staying on the field the other team will make choices as to who they shoot at or where they move to because you are still alive and you shouldn't be.

 

[Ralph]

From here on in then the following terms are to be dispenced with

Marshall: as no marshalling will take place

Judge : as no judging will take place

Ref : as no reffing will take place

all former terms will be in future known under one title :


ENFORCER



by oder of the gruppenfurer

 

[Jasper]

To me your gonna get refs that are gonna penalise you for no reason other than they can!

At the masters last month a ref called me 141 as i bunkered two people. Now the ref that called it was on the other side of the field from me over 20 to 30 feet away. when i complained to the ref that was right next to me he checked me and found no hits on me at all but the 141 stood!

Your gonna get refs just shouting it all over the place i dont really know anyone that as they are shot while they are firing are able to instantly stop shooting as it takes a second or two for your brain to register but with this rule the ref can 141 you straight away if they want!

Say a full pot falls out your pack and sits next to you in your bunker and the other team shoot it, i know in the past you were out, dont know if this rule still applies but if it does then now your not only out but you are 141'd!

Also what happens if you ask a ref to check you and he comes in an calls you clean you then get pulled 141 for a hit they missed as you carried on but did not take another shot at you before they came back in and pulled you?

 

[Beaker]

Ralph - that is what they are doing at the moment (you'd hope)...

The key thing is you are arguing that if you didn't know about a hit, you somehow don't deserve to be penalised because how was he to know. Our arguement is that the penalty is not on the player, it's to redress the balance for that player having an impact on the game that he wasn't entitled to have, regardless of whether he knew he was hit or not. To us the intent is immaterial, it's impact that's the key.

Kinda of like in F1 a back-marking car will get penalised for holding up a race leader, regarless of whether he could see it for spray or his mirrors had fallen off.

Originally posted by Jasper
Say a full pot falls out your pack and sits next to you in your bunker and the other team shoot it, i know in the past you were out, dont know if this rule still applies but if it does then now your not only out but you are 141'd!

AFAIK you never would have been out.

You only out if you pick up a pot that has been shot, if it just falls out of your pack then it's considered discarded. If you pick it up again it's considered part of your kit again.

 

[Matski]

Jasper

Whatever rulebook is being used, you need good refs to enforce them with consistency. Your last example is just the age old situation of a ref not checking someone properly...you can't blame the rules for that.

 

[HERMITT]

This rule is all well and good as long as there is a select, impartial and professional reffing staff in place that are used throughout the series.

With a rule as stringent and as rigid as this it is rediculous to use the system that is currently in place. Jasper raised a fair set of arguments against this rule and these should not just be discarded without due attention. There must be an adequate number of refs per field or there will be too many mistakes and the rule will be ridiculed.