Sam??

[LV 4 26]

Have one marshal per player and if you disagree with that then you have to disregard using refs in football or any other sport as an example cause Paintball is the only sport where there are multiple points of action on the field at any one time. The referee in nearly all sports ( I am sure I have said this before) only has to follow one ball, shuttlecock etc. Covering the grey area is not a fair way of doing it, you need more marshals on the field.

I personally dont agree with it.

Trial by tv

 

[#29]

they have a rule just like this in the nppl.

 

[Ralph]

Ralph

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
You play football and clumsily fall to bring down an opponent in the penalty box, and it is a penalty... doesn't matter if you intended it or not

But that is not the case when it comes to handball in football is it.
If the ball touch's an outfield players hand/arm inside the penalty box it is a penalty...... unless the ref decides that it is ball to hand not hand to ball. The ref has a choice. All i'm saying is that paintball refs will have no choice. They will take an easy way out as they will be 'only following the rule'.

What i am waiting for is a device where by a ref notices that a player has a hit on them, which the player may know or not know about. With this device the ref can turn the players gun off remotely and just let them get mullerd until they've had enough

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Ralph

You are not referring to my example - which I think is spot on



Nick

 

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Beaker
plus with goggles it's easy to argue that you couldn't see something.

So it's the goggle makers fault but we know it's true. we know it's a grey area that's about to be turned black and white but it's still a grey area and all i'm saying is that the ref should be allowed to make a decision.

In any case this is nothing new. Many moons ago this was brought in and this is how some marshals interpreted it.

A player comes up from behind a bunker fireing at all and anything: others return fire. None go anywhere near him with exception of one that hits square on the front of the hopper.
He knows nothing as far as he's concerned no one even knows what he did he thinks has no need to check himself or call for a check by a marshal and none of the opposition know he's been hit. A ref has seen it hit though and slowly makes their way to the offender to remove them. The player comes up for a second go of spray everything that is on the field (but did not fire). The ref calls for 1-4-1. He's 'allowed' to come up twice more by the ref with the same consequence because he is blissfully unaware of what the ref is doing or not doing as the case maybe.
So what happens with that grey area?

 

[Ralph]

Ralph

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
You are not referring to my example - which I think is spot on



Nick

And you are not contradicting my example which i think is spot on

 

[jotajotaZ]

The rules must take care of two things (I think Shamu put it so clear a few posts before):

a) Balance

b) Punishment for unsportsman behaviour

If I'm hit and I don't leave the field (if I'm aware or not is academical) I'm having an effect on the game. Be it that I'm still shooting, be it that someone is forced to continue shooting at me or even watching if I'm leaving or not. If a player that should not be having an impact in the game is doing so, balance must be restored.

If I'm hit and I try to wipe or I try to continue playing then I need to be punished for not showing a sportsmanlike conduct.

Using Nick's example, if I while trying to reach the soccer ball hit a guy in my goal area, and he falls thus missing an oportunity to score, the ref will call a penalty shot, trying to balance the situation (they had an opportunity, my acting made them lose it). If I punch him on the face, the ref will show me a red card and call a penalty, trying to balance the situation *and* punish my unsportsmanlike action.

There will always be grey areas, but they can't be near the substance of the game. A ball goes thru the hop or it doesn't, a runner steps on all four bases before the ball reaches any of them or he doesn't, a baller is eliminated or he isn't.

 

[ChiZZerS]

Originally posted by Bolter
I understand the ruling. To be fair and honest, there arent many occasions where you don't know you have been hit.

very true.
dont think their has been one occasion where i havent felt soemthing

you can always feel the impact of a hit... even on a hopper...
espechily on a hoper the vibrations travel through the gun and
into your hands

 

[shamu]

Originally posted by Ralph
So it's the goggle makers fault but we know it's true. we know it's a grey area that's about to be turned black and white but it's still a grey area and all i'm saying is that the ref should be allowed to make a decision.

So now we're blaming the goggle manufacturers? (just kidding)

In any case this is nothing new. Many moons ago this was brought in and this is how some marshals interpreted it.

A player comes up from behind a bunker fireing at all and anything: others return fire. None go anywhere near him with exception of one that hits square on the front of the hopper.
He knows nothing as far as he's concerned no one even knows what he did he thinks has no need to check himself or call for a check by a marshal and none of the opposition know he's been hit. A ref has seen it hit though and slowly makes their way to the offender to remove them. The player comes up for a second go of spray everything that is on the field (but did not fire). The ref calls for 1-4-1. He's 'allowed' to come up twice more by the ref with the same consequence because he is blissfully unaware of what the ref is doing or not doing as the case maybe.
So what happens with that grey area?

There is no grey area. If you get hit and continue to play, it's playing on, regardless of your awareness of the hit.

What's so hard to understand about this? You may not like the new rule, which I can understand. But you seem to be pushing for an exception or loophole to the rule. Maybe so you can be "blissfully unaware" of getting hit?

As other people have already said, it's not that difficult to tell when you've been hit.

 

[Baca Loco]

I will take a slightly different tack--
There was nothing wrong with the prior rules except for the dearth of competent officiating. In the long run the LESS you leave to an official's discretion the better off you are.
If the old rules had routinely been called consistently and with a bit of alacrity (instead of dawdling around the field in fear of catching a stray ball) it's unlikely this would have come up.
While I understand the concern Ralph has just think back to the (almost certainly) hundreds of examples you can recall where ref's discretion allowed all manner of "unbalanced" play to occur--at least as far as one team or another was concerned. And not infrequently, rightly so.

My only question with this rule is will the refs actually call it consistently or will they revert to their old habit of mostly just pulling guys and sometimes--for whatever reason--enforcing it with the net result of no substantial improvement in officiating quality (beyond the obvious intent of modifying player behavior.)

[*] on a separate (mostly irrelevant) issue it can, in truth, be difficult to know when you've been hit or even if you've been hit at all given the present level of padding allowed and some of the brittle top end paint in use.