Salm suspended from 2003 NPPL??

[Wadidiz]

I tell you what, it seems to be impossible to get a factual picture of what happened at any tournament one doesn't attend, apart from the stuff that goes down on the official scoresheets.

There were bunches of reports from both the 5 and 10-player events at the World Cup about understaffed fields. Then we hear that wasn't the case. I hear from many sources that the reffing was atrocious, both from various forums and from acquaintances who just got back. But I read other posts that say the reffing was generally good. What's a man to believe?

I got e-mails and had conversations with people who were at some of the recent events, about how the reffing in the NPPL has gotten so lax as to be laughable. That almost nobody will enforce the rules, especially in play-on situations.

Yet the times that I reffed NPPL events, including two world cups, I reffed with judges who were very competent and busted their asses to do a good and fair job (both times with GZ guys). I don't remember hearing a single complaint about anything. This past summer I reffed a Millennium with a top NPPL American team. Ditto. We were universally praised for a magnificent job.

Then the Nations' Cup. My Swedish friends and many other Europeans said the judging was without-a-doubt biased. So much so that they felt they couldn't take it any more and dropped out. But others, including some on this forum, said it wasn't in the slightest way biased. Just some missed calls because of the pace of the game.

I know it is not the end of the world if lil'o me doesn't know what really happened. It is just a little frustrating.

I'm not saying anyone is lying or exaggerating. I just think this perception phenomenon thing between different people is interesting.

 

[KillerOnion]

Originally posted by acsik
right


And what is this mysterious "Theme Park" thing you talked about?

The theme park incident as it was told to me by several reliable sources was that Salm went out and got wasted at or near a theme park, went in, tried picking a fight and successfully picked a fight with a dude dressed in a big Lego suit. He rather stupidly in his drunken state punched the guy on his hard plastic Lego hat, broke his hand in multiple places, and was hauled off by security (and presumably later the police). I would almost pity him if I considered it worth the waste of attention.

 

[raehl]

Remember everything I said about rumor mongering being bad?

Pretend I didn't say it for a second.

First, the reason you hear so many different things about how events went, especially events on the magnitude of World Cup, is that each person only sees a SMALL portion of what goes on. I was there for three days - but if it didn't happen near the X-Ball field (or involve shooting players from the woods, which you couldn't escape if you wanted to) I don't know about it.

Most teams probably didn't pay more than 7 fields, so who knows which teams had which reffing experiences where and when. Can't really say "no fields had 4 refs" unless you were checking all 12 fields all the time. But maybe that was just one game on one field that was a fluke for some reason.



As for the whole avalanche thing: I find it hard to believe that ANYONE could be that stupid. Maybe some cosmic rays could cause ONE person to think they could get away with shooting players from the woods, but you'd expect that some sanity would kick in the second anyone else knew about it. My guess? The guy who did it was airing a beef with 'lanche (or GZ) and was just so bent on settling his beef that he didn't bother to think.

The idea of Jerry or anyone else orchestrating such a thing is just ludicrous. Anyone in a position to even be able to orchestrate would by nature of achieving that position have to have been too smart to do something so stupid.


As for the penalty, the penalty is fitting, perhaps a little light on the individual. Even if 'lanche didn't know (which I highly doubt they did), they deserve the penalty for even having a player on the roster who would do such a thing to begin with. Teams can't get the idea that they won't be held accountable for their player's actions as long as the player says the team didn't know. Teams need to be proactive about the kind of players they permit on their roster in the first place.


But regardless, this isn't a huge deal. A player screwed up, a player and his team got severely penalized for it, and after the initial incident, everything went down like it should have. This is actually a case of things going the RIGHT way. You can't make everyone behave the right way all the time, but you can make sure you respond to inappropriate behavior appropriately, and that happened here.


- Chris

 

[weedave]

That was a sad day for Avalanche and Paintball...

Dave

 

[headrock6]

Remember everything I said about rumor mongering being bad?

Originally posted by raehl






As for the penalty, the penalty is fitting, perhaps a little light on the individual. Even if 'lanche didn't know (which I highly doubt they did), they deserve the penalty for even having a player on the roster who would do such a thing to begin with. Teams can't get the idea that they won't be held accountable for their player's actions as long as the player says the team didn't know. Teams need to be proactive about the kind of players they permit on their roster in the first place.

But what other sport holds whole teams accountable 4 any one players actions??

Say Barry Bonds tests positive 4 steroids next year,do you hold the team accountable for his actions??His actions would benefit him and his team as a whole yet you couldnt hold the whole team responsible..

The only way I could see the team accountable is if their was 100% proof that the whole team was involved in the action and there wasnt anything in this case that showed that...Maybe they were,maybe they werent but nobody knows 4 sure..

And im not sure the penalty was that light..What do you get for physically assaulting someone in the NPPL..Maybe a six game suspension..Thats what i'd call a light penalty..Your actually breaking a law that they could throw you in jail 4..And some teams dont mind to much starting with 9 players so whats to stop them from doing it..Maybe if you knew that assaulting someone would draw you say a year long penalty you wouldnt see it again...

You need rules to have a little severity behind them if they are broken and you need someone with a backbone to enforce them..Until that happens we're gonna see this $hit for a long time 2 come

-6

 

[raehl]

The thing is....

Most sports also have player unions and a very well defined structure for player fines and negotiated penalties for certain infractions. At that point the whole league is bearing responsibility because youre dealing with terms of employment.

When you're at the NPPL level, where the players are customers of the league more than employees, you have to rely on the teams a bit more.

- Chris

 

[headrock6]

But..

..would Ed have had a case if he said ,hey thats one person on the team and not the rest of the guys..He paid just like the rest of the cusomers so where are his rights when something like this happens??Umless theres a rule saying if your team is caught cheating then the whole team forfeits the right to play i would have fought like a bear with his leg caught in a trap..When you get caught wiping your whole team doesnt get tossed..

And with these last couple of posts it got me thinking, why would he agree with the decision??Im not saying he had to like it but by him saying he agrees with it,isnt that sort of an admission of guilt anyway..

Im not condoning the act and the whole situation was outta control and i whole heartedly agree that the situation was handled in the best way possible but it just seems to me they need a very strict and clear set of rules with the power to enforce them when things like this arise..

And how did the college X-Ball pan out..I know the finals were off with the scheduling fiasco and long games but couldnt they have at least let you play on the other X-Ball field that was set up pr was that occupied by the Am's??

 

[raehl]

Well...

I think Ed does agree with the decision, in the sense that it's exactly what he'd expect were it someone else's team that did the same thing. It is a *TEAM*, and in a competition, the TEAM suffers the penalty just as much as the player committing the act that is penalized. You can't be playing a team sport and then try and argue that "It was just one of our players breaking the rules." That's why the whole team was tossed. I agree, and I wouldhave done the same thing at a tournament I was running. And the long term penalty was applied to the player, who was definitely responsible.

Take the NCPA for example: If you play with an ineligible player, the WHOLE SCHOOL is held accountable. Your school is responsible for aking sure that the players it brings are eligible. Hell, it's the same for NCAA sports as well.


As for college X-Ball, all the players had a blast, and the event put college paintball on the radar of a lot of people who hadn't even realized we were out there. I also think the sportsmanship example we set during the week carried over to the sunday event, at least in the announcing area, and hopefully on the field as well.

There was no "other field" though - the one from Thurs->sat was at least partially disassembled and there wasn't anyof the necessary support - like paint, air, refs, etc, to have a tournament over there (although I suppose we could have had college guys ref in a pinch).


And to be honest, on the one hand, it's great to get the college teams out there in front of the rest of paintball, but on the other, we can always "go home" to the college league, where we can come out in the morning, play for fun and under $100/player (incl. paint), and get everyone together and go out that night. Yeah, there isn't as much "glory", but it's one hell of a lot more fun.


Best part of the event for me was seeing all the players out at Old Town Sat night mixing it up. We've got some fierce rivalries going, but at the same time, we know that it's college ball first at the end of the day.

- Chris

 

[headrock6]

Well...

Originally posted by raehl

Take the NCPA for example: If you play with an ineligible player, the WHOLE SCHOOL is held accountable. Your school is responsible for aking sure that the players it brings are eligible. Hell, it's the same for NCAA sports as well.

I agree but there are specific rules that outline these infraction unlike some of the situations that arise in the NPPL..

Originally posted by raehl
There was no "other field" though - the one from Thurs->sat was at least partially disassembled and there wasn't anyof the necessary support - like paint, air, refs, etc, to have a tournament over there (although I suppose we could have had college guys ref in a pinch).

Welcome to the world of PSP

Originally posted by raehl
Best part of the event for me was seeing all the players out at Old Town Sat night mixing it up. We've got some fierce rivalries going, but at the same time, we know that it's college ball first at the end of the day.

Its amazing the kind of friendships that form through the world of paintball..Over the last 5 years ive met more people and developed more friendships than i would have ever imagined..And all through pointing a gun at em and inflicting pain on em and vice versa..hmmmm.wierd

 

[raehl]

Re: Well...

Originally posted by headrock6


I agree but there are specific rules that outline these infraction unlike some of the situations that arise in the NPPL..

Well, for the record, we don't have a rule for people shooting players on the field from the woods.... We'd have to wing that one too.

You can't possibly predict everything.

- Chris