On the last occasion that I visited the site it was like that. Approx 300 people in 12 teams, that's 25 people per team, 50 on a field and two marshalls.
Rec Sites With The Worst Reputation
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Yes Delta is owned by AEG.
The UKPBA (think thats it) is quite funny to read as it gives guidelines that DF do not meet. Examples being all marshals over 18 and to complete a course... ah well. I also dont understand why DF cannot join the UKPSF simply because they are not welcome, rather than they would fail to meet the standards. It would do them some good to meet UKPSF standards! Getting DF UKPSF approved would mean more unification and less of this suspicion on them, it would make the UKPBA useless, and make sure ALL DF sites meet the standards that are needed to run a great site!
You have to remember DF do have some good sites and some good people working for them, unfortunatly though there are some bad apples, like there is everywhere. Seems though DF have some really bad rotten apples! In the end DF DO bring people into paintballing, though they make no effort or attempt to show them what else is out there, it has always been pot luck on that person discovering it (it, being walkons, tourneys, scenarios and everything else) by accident or by a marshal who knows about it.
On the note of their sales people out on the streets, believe me, no-one, and I mean, no-one, gets more annoyed than the marshals with them. So what if they dont know much about the tourney world, they dont need to! What they DO need to know however is exactly what they are selling! I have spoke to them in the street like a few people have here and they do mislead. Though not quite on the scale some people here have said they do. Ive also spoken to one of the managers of sales there (I dont know what the title is, and it doesnt matter anyway) and tried to address the problem. He seemed to take some of it in.
The UKPBA (think thats it) is quite funny to read as it gives guidelines that DF do not meet. Examples being all marshals over 18 and to complete a course... ah well. I also dont understand why DF cannot join the UKPSF simply because they are not welcome, rather than they would fail to meet the standards. It would do them some good to meet UKPSF standards! Getting DF UKPSF approved would mean more unification and less of this suspicion on them, it would make the UKPBA useless, and make sure ALL DF sites meet the standards that are needed to run a great site!
You have to remember DF do have some good sites and some good people working for them, unfortunatly though there are some bad apples, like there is everywhere. Seems though DF have some really bad rotten apples! In the end DF DO bring people into paintballing, though they make no effort or attempt to show them what else is out there, it has always been pot luck on that person discovering it (it, being walkons, tourneys, scenarios and everything else) by accident or by a marshal who knows about it.
On the note of their sales people out on the streets, believe me, no-one, and I mean, no-one, gets more annoyed than the marshals with them. So what if they dont know much about the tourney world, they dont need to! What they DO need to know however is exactly what they are selling! I have spoke to them in the street like a few people have here and they do mislead. Though not quite on the scale some people here have said they do. Ive also spoken to one of the managers of sales there (I dont know what the title is, and it doesnt matter anyway) and tried to address the problem. He seemed to take some of it in.
We've already covered that one, but why not bring it up again anyway. This was fully investigated by DF and i can tell you the outcome. It was in Norwich. DF were interested in buying a site which Skirmish were also interested in. In the end, although DF submitted the higest bid we withdrew because we discovered from searches that there was an option/ chance that the land (or land very close by owned by the same person) would be wanted for development. As we spend a LOT (see earlier in this thread) on developing a site, it wasn't worth our while taking a chance in this case. Unfortunately, in the meantime the IPG ticket sellers got wind that we were planning to open in Norwich and they set up a stall in a shopping mall. Added to this, one of the IPG sellers brothers, who had just come to the UK from South Africa the day before and was short of cash was allowed by his brother to work on the stall. There is a video of this knocking about somewhere on the forums and this guy is easily identifiable as he is not wearing the black uniforms the ticket sellers wear. It was obvious that he didn't know what he was talking about. Anyway, this video was given to IPG and as a result the guy who allowed his brother to work the stall no longer works for them.
IPG arranged with another paintball company near Norwich to accept the tickets which had already been sold, which in effect gave them free business, and everyone who bought a ticket was informed that this was not a DF operated site and if they were unhappy, were offered a refund. As i said before in this thread, IPG do sell for a few other centres as well as DF and i believe the one near Norwich is still one of them, although this is not marketed as a DF centre. In fact none of IPG's tickets are exclusively for DF centres.
IPG arranged with another paintball company near Norwich to accept the tickets which had already been sold, which in effect gave them free business, and everyone who bought a ticket was informed that this was not a DF operated site and if they were unhappy, were offered a refund. As i said before in this thread, IPG do sell for a few other centres as well as DF and i believe the one near Norwich is still one of them, although this is not marketed as a DF centre. In fact none of IPG's tickets are exclusively for DF centres.
Bollics would you like the videos posted on here??
Your sellers 2 days in a row sold tickets for delta force that was in fact a Skirmish site. You got kicked out the mall by trading standards !
Delta Force does something right or people would not book. But you need to change your ticket sales of valueless books of tickets. You also need to train your sellers so they know facts and not just lie to get a ticket sale !
Your sellers 2 days in a row sold tickets for delta force that was in fact a Skirmish site. You got kicked out the mall by trading standards !
Delta Force does something right or people would not book. But you need to change your ticket sales of valueless books of tickets. You also need to train your sellers so they know facts and not just lie to get a ticket sale !
The tickets aren't worthless, they have a value, £49.99. This gets 8 people into the centre of their choice =£6.25 per person, which isn't a lot really. As well as admission to the centre of their choice, the cost of the tickets also covers the ticket sellers wages, as they don't stand there in the pissing rain free of charge for the good of paintball, as we all well know. This is no different to when you buy a DVD or pair of trainers from a shop, a percentage of the price you pay goes towards the shop assistants wages. You can probably get the same DVD/Trainers off the internet a bit cheaper as the seller doesn't have shop staff's wages to pay.
Re the video, yes, i have seen it, if it is the one which appeared on here several months ago, and i passed the link onto IPG. It showed a south african guy without a uniform talking bollocks at a rather dark, indoor, IPG stall, as i have said above.
Re trading standards throwing them out, i haven't heard of that one before but i think this is likely to be more hype, since trading standards don't operate in this way. They are more of an advice line on consumer related issues as you would know if you have called on their services in the past, as i have when i got ripped off by a dodgy garage. They had no powers to act, they could only advise me how to bring a civil action in the small claims court against the garage.
DF use IPG to get customers we don't train their staff for them although they come to a DF centre to get a feel for the product they are selling. IPG management are always attentive to complaints that DF have put to them and on the whole we are happy with their service. We accept that IPG management can't be on the streets with their ticket sellers but we are satisfied that they have an adequate structure of supervisors and managers in place who regularly check up on their staff and operate a 'two hits and you're out' policy on complaints. In addition, our centre managers can find out where the sellers in their area will be on any given day and if they want to go along to try and catch them out they are welcome to, or they can send a marshal along instead. I do this regularly and tbh the worst i have been told is that the guns fire in full auto if the trigger is held in. I have probably approached IPG sellers on about 15-20 occasions in various parts of the South East and South West.
Obviously, you can choose to believe me or not, just as Robbo chooses not to believe the figures re player numbers or set up costs which i posted. I accept that most posters on here already have a biased view of DF, not that they really know why, but just because that's the way it is and it's cooler/easier to side with the majority rather than say, actually i've never been to a DF centre, so i don't really know if that's true or not'.
So there you have it, we can discuss it until we're blue in the face, but unless people want to believe the truth, well what can we do???
Re the video, yes, i have seen it, if it is the one which appeared on here several months ago, and i passed the link onto IPG. It showed a south african guy without a uniform talking bollocks at a rather dark, indoor, IPG stall, as i have said above.
Re trading standards throwing them out, i haven't heard of that one before but i think this is likely to be more hype, since trading standards don't operate in this way. They are more of an advice line on consumer related issues as you would know if you have called on their services in the past, as i have when i got ripped off by a dodgy garage. They had no powers to act, they could only advise me how to bring a civil action in the small claims court against the garage.
DF use IPG to get customers we don't train their staff for them although they come to a DF centre to get a feel for the product they are selling. IPG management are always attentive to complaints that DF have put to them and on the whole we are happy with their service. We accept that IPG management can't be on the streets with their ticket sellers but we are satisfied that they have an adequate structure of supervisors and managers in place who regularly check up on their staff and operate a 'two hits and you're out' policy on complaints. In addition, our centre managers can find out where the sellers in their area will be on any given day and if they want to go along to try and catch them out they are welcome to, or they can send a marshal along instead. I do this regularly and tbh the worst i have been told is that the guns fire in full auto if the trigger is held in. I have probably approached IPG sellers on about 15-20 occasions in various parts of the South East and South West.
Obviously, you can choose to believe me or not, just as Robbo chooses not to believe the figures re player numbers or set up costs which i posted. I accept that most posters on here already have a biased view of DF, not that they really know why, but just because that's the way it is and it's cooler/easier to side with the majority rather than say, actually i've never been to a DF centre, so i don't really know if that's true or not'.
So there you have it, we can discuss it until we're blue in the face, but unless people want to believe the truth, well what can we do???
OK, let’s have a think and try and work out what Rental, or Punter sites are trying to do shall we? They are all trying to get the public, individuals, companies, clubs, associations etc. to come to one or their sites and play paintball! It doesn’t matter if they are Delta Force, or one of the independent sites, including those marketed under the Skirmish or any other brand names. It is their aim to get walk in customers to book a days paintball (at an attractively low initial outlay) and to spend as much as possible on a day’s play to make a profit, pay their staff, rent the site, pay the bank manager back for the loan for x-hundred Infernos/Tippmanns, overalls, goggles, co2/air bottles, fill rigs etc. The work they have put in to building the site and the materials they bought. And, ultimately to pay their own mortgages, put food on their tables, clothe their kids and make a comfortable life for themselves! Does any of that make sense?
Now let’s take a look at it from another angle, one that almost everybody else is familiar, the supermarkets! OK then, lets say DF = Tesco (The biggest and most profitable), there are quite a few out there who hate Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons, Asda, Waitrose to name a few. Who doubts that some of those companies offer a better service, lower value or better quality than the aforementioned giant? If you look at the list of the 85% who have voted against DF it is populated, amongst others, by paintball industry figures, independent site owners, forum users associated with other punter paintball sites etc., all who stand to benefit from the demise of DF, were that to happen!
Now lets move to another angle, you are the marketing company promoting Tesco (just an example), would you say in your spiel, “Yes, but you can get better quality meat from …….., better cheese at …………, better fruit and veg at ………., and the prices are lower from ……….. and ………….” I don’t think so!
Let’s face it, the majority of this forms readers and posters are unlikely to be planning a trip to DF any time soon! What DF may, or may not, do annoy many of them, they see a big business making money and are jealous. Where is it written that after a punters first experience of paintball it is required to explain what Sup-Air is, how tournaments work, what a walk-on or scenario is, many of them have no interest in any of that and have just had a good day out.
Get over it, live and let live, DF will be DF, if you feel you can do better, nobody at all is going to stop you!
P.S. As I have said before, I do not work for DF, I just know people who do, posting this profits me in no way at all.
Now let’s take a look at it from another angle, one that almost everybody else is familiar, the supermarkets! OK then, lets say DF = Tesco (The biggest and most profitable), there are quite a few out there who hate Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons, Asda, Waitrose to name a few. Who doubts that some of those companies offer a better service, lower value or better quality than the aforementioned giant? If you look at the list of the 85% who have voted against DF it is populated, amongst others, by paintball industry figures, independent site owners, forum users associated with other punter paintball sites etc., all who stand to benefit from the demise of DF, were that to happen!
Now lets move to another angle, you are the marketing company promoting Tesco (just an example), would you say in your spiel, “Yes, but you can get better quality meat from …….., better cheese at …………, better fruit and veg at ………., and the prices are lower from ……….. and ………….” I don’t think so!
Let’s face it, the majority of this forms readers and posters are unlikely to be planning a trip to DF any time soon! What DF may, or may not, do annoy many of them, they see a big business making money and are jealous. Where is it written that after a punters first experience of paintball it is required to explain what Sup-Air is, how tournaments work, what a walk-on or scenario is, many of them have no interest in any of that and have just had a good day out.
Get over it, live and let live, DF will be DF, if you feel you can do better, nobody at all is going to stop you!
P.S. As I have said before, I do not work for DF, I just know people who do, posting this profits me in no way at all.
It ain't hype it is the truth . As for you saying total bollics he was selling tickets to a Skirmish site ! So no Hype about it ! Your tickets are rubbish if they entitle you to entrance to the paintball site of your choice, tell me why do you then charge £10 for your first hundred balls ?
You are selling a pointless piece of paper that varies so much in price where ever you look.
The videos in question clearly see your guy on 2 days not one selling tickets to a Skirmish site. Which shows once again another bull ****ter selling your tickets.
Why don't you do things in a honest way sell them a ticket at a set price all over the country? £10 and gets you on site and no need to pay extra just to get there.
You are selling a pointless piece of paper that varies so much in price where ever you look.
The videos in question clearly see your guy on 2 days not one selling tickets to a Skirmish site. Which shows once again another bull ****ter selling your tickets.
Why don't you do things in a honest way sell them a ticket at a set price all over the country? £10 and gets you on site and no need to pay extra just to get there.
The point about super markets is they don't offer you something that is pointless and valueless. As the post above claims the tickets are worth something. So in that case let people come to your sites and enter with a ticket and not make them try and pay for 100 balls at an inflated price.
If your tickets were a set price across the board where you tried to sell them then maybe you'd have an arguement.
But you rely on selling them 100 at £10 to cover your entrance costs etc.
I am not slagging of the quality of your games or your sites here as I have not visited them all and never will so I can not make that comment. I have heard good and bad about them. But unless I visited them and played I could not make my view.
I can say that people on here have commented on your prices for paintballs. Which to me seem to be uniform across the country and Scotland (which tends to charge a hell of a lot more).
£6 / 100 is around a set price all over the country now.
My point is your street sellers ain't got a clue constantly lie and sell what they can to make their money. The customer then finds out your ticket is pointless and half or more of what they were told is bull.
Get your sellers trained and honest and your sites will get a better name for them selves.
If your tickets were a set price across the board where you tried to sell them then maybe you'd have an arguement.
But you rely on selling them 100 at £10 to cover your entrance costs etc.
I am not slagging of the quality of your games or your sites here as I have not visited them all and never will so I can not make that comment. I have heard good and bad about them. But unless I visited them and played I could not make my view.
I can say that people on here have commented on your prices for paintballs. Which to me seem to be uniform across the country and Scotland (which tends to charge a hell of a lot more).
£6 / 100 is around a set price all over the country now.
My point is your street sellers ain't got a clue constantly lie and sell what they can to make their money. The customer then finds out your ticket is pointless and half or more of what they were told is bull.
Get your sellers trained and honest and your sites will get a better name for them selves.
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