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Read all about it: $500 Fine for Cheaty Guns, no team DQ

Wadidiz

EnHaNcE tHa TrAnCe
Jul 9, 2002
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Originally posted by Beaker
are guns that get sent to the robot opened up and their boards/chips checked for stuff like the advantage boards? or is it purely if it clears the robot?

I vote
fails over robot
$500
Player ejected
Play short
Can't play another event until fine paid.
¤ 15 BPS cap enforced by ball-counter
¤ no full auto (two fingers walking)
¤ no stored shots (within 250MS after release of trigger)
¤ no excessive bouncing

As has been discussed here ad nauseum tha robot only catches the unsophisticated cheaters. It wouldn't catch the Advantage chip, for example. Nor would it catch any of the guns with "gates" or sequences that turn into turbo mode.

Enforcement?

I don't know. Maybe multiple game suspensions including short-play, forfeited game plus escalating penalties for repeat offenders. I'm not sure about the fine thing.
 
Originally posted by Wadidiz
¤ 22 BPS cap enforced by ball-counter :D
¤ no full auto (two fingers walking)
¤ no stored shots (within 250MS after release of trigger)
¤ no excessive bouncing

As has been discussed here ad nauseum tha robot only catches the unsophisticated cheaters. It wouldn't catch the Advantage chip, for example. Nor would it catch any of the guns with "gates" or sequences that turn into turbo mode.

Enforcement?

I don't know. Maybe multiple game suspensions including short-play, forfeited game plus escalating penalties for repeat offenders. I'm not sure about the fine thing.
This is going to work.
I would add to this the use of radar guns on field and robot off field to catch velocity ramping.


If the NPPL expect their system to detect the gun cheats that are out now, nevermind the ones which will be developed with the NPPLs rules in mind then they are being very naive.



Simple as......
 

Wadidiz

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Jul 9, 2002
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Originally posted by John C
This is going to work.
I suggest 15 BPS (instead of 20 or 22) simply because NXL did and, when watching NXL, it seemed fast enough to me. Definitely slower than the pulse-rays of PBs on the Division X Ball fields (even though we busted dozens of illegal guns).
 

Intheno

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Sep 18, 2003
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strongle, The NPPL is not the Millennium series. You said it, and yet still wish to use toulouse in your argument. I have no problem with your math, it just doesn't make any sense to use the Millennium as a benchmark when discussing the NPPL. The instances you refer to were last year. The NPPL and the Millennium may be working together rule-wise next year, But this year they did not. Futile argument in my opinion.

The 'shock-horror' overkill you use goes right over my head. Is this something you jhave against me personally or does it have a bearing on the discussion. I have no wish to be a martyr, but I do have a wish to put accross a veiw that is not purely from a playing perspective. Is this shocking to you?

Am I hinting at a quality control gap? Without question, and I am not hinting, I am prepared to state that there is one there, for sure. An organisation with 4-6 decision-makers and few full-time employee's is not as manouverable or reactive as an organisation with a solid HQ and infrastructure (don't mean to knock the staff of any organisations, as it is not thier fault).

As for the rest, paintball is not free. Yes, I too wish it was, but how much people have to save up is not my problem, or the NPPL's. They charge what they charge. It is up to the players/teams to decide whether or not they get value for what is charged. If enough teams think they are getting vaue from the NPPL then they will succeed, if not they will fail. If they charge less than they need, they will fail. It is simple business and only becomes complicated when you start saying 'its the players league' etc. Yes, I believe it is the 'players league', but that does not mean it should not be run as a business. I am wary of being continually alarmist, but if the league(s) do not get supported they will cease to exist. At that stage you, and others like you, will start bleating that there is no decent league (again). The leagues are doing what they can to please thier 'customers' and the league that offers the best all-round package will be the most successful. This year it was the NPPL without doubt.

Finally on the 'players league', if a player is not a member of such league, do you believe they should be able to criticise the NPPL for not looking after thier interests? Do you think the NPPL is a body that should be looking out for all paintballers worldwide, or just its members? There's a big difference. Your squeals seem to be generally about european teams and players. Do these players, most of which have never played an NPPL event and many of which are not NPPL members, think that the league owes them something for the Millenniums shortfalls?
 

repairman

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Feb 14, 2003
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This was discussed for hours............

For all that did not attend the NPPL meeting this was the best that the room could come up with. It is not about bouncing guns. It is about guns that are put on the robot and fail. The other thing you forgot was the six game suspension for the offender.
The idea is to hit the player where it hurts the most....in the pocketbook. Sure the arguement might be made well the pro teams will just risk it. People the "Pro" teams; most of them don't have all the money that everyone thinks they have.
plus you have to play down for 6 games.........that hurts.

Some other things that the league is considering is a capped rate of 15 BPS. this is not full auto...........this is pulling the trigger. This will make it easier to move on the field. Some people didn't like it. I think it is a great thing for the sport.

Repairman
 

Intheno

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Sep 18, 2003
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this argument was used in '97 when 'Turbo' was invented. There are too many greedy peopel out there for it to work. Greedy teams, greedy manufacturers, they all want to win/sell moere and will always break the rules. The rule used to be 13 and I doubt it lasted a month.
 

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
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This was discussed for hours............

Originally posted by repairman

Some other things that the league is considering is a capped rate of 15 BPS. this is not full auto...........this is pulling the trigger. This will make it easier to move on the field. Some people didn't like it. I think it is a great thing for the sport.

Repairman
Well, it seems to be working for F1 so maybe it would work for paintball too - should make the games more visually dynamic for viewers that's for sure...
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Originally posted by Intheno
Finally on the 'players league', if a player is not a member of such league, do you believe they should be able to criticise the NPPL for not looking after thier interests? Do you think the NPPL is a body that should be looking out for all paintballers worldwide, or just its members? There's a big difference. Your squeals seem to be generally about european teams and players. Do these players, most of which have never played an NPPL event and many of which are not NPPL members, think that the league owes them something for the Millenniums shortfalls?
What constitutes membership? You enjoy hyping the players league mantra but what, exactly, does that mean?

And if the NPPL is looking to supercede the MS in Euroland then why is it hard to comprehend that Euro players are concerned and interested in just what and how the NPPL intend to do things?
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
As to capping bps at 15 on the field, it's doable right now with available technology. If the "how" the gun reaches 15 isn't relevant--only that it max out at 15 you remove lots of the current enforcement problems that have caused so much grief.
 

Intheno

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Sep 18, 2003
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I would argue that it is you that uses the 'players league' mantraComrade. I am just following your lead, its prolly the first time I have ever used the term myself.

I was asking 'Y'all' the question about whether the NPPL should be criticised as not delivering to non-members, to prompt your collective views, it was not a retrospective question so try answering it yourself. My opinion is obvious, I plan to going to 'shock-horror' myself into martyrdom.....
and surprisingly, I constitute membership as having paid a membership fee. Thats what I have to do if I want to be a member of an organisation, unless it is 'the collective' or 'the public' or other such obvious exceptions.