Ramping - Robbo's Article in PGI 195

[Chicago]

Originally posted by matski
You may not like WDP

What makes you think I don't like WDP? I don't like them any more or less than any of the other manufacturers that insist on selling cheater guns. I just don't like the press release. I think it's a copout from actually doing something to address the problem.

but if your going to criticise at least have some form of argument other than the hypocritical nature of capitalism

You may like WDP, but maybe you should have an arguement other than you think I don't like them.

Yes, many manufacturers make products that can cause harm. But there are not any manufacturers who put features in their products for the express purpose of causing harm. If WDP believes that ramping can not be safelyused in millenium, and is advising players that ramping may not be safe to use in millenium, then taking a marker that works perfectly fine without ramping, and then ADDING ramping to that marker, clearly illustrates a decision to put profit over safety.

You can't easily make a hair dryer that won't kill you if you drop it in the tub. You can very easily make a marker that doesn't ramp.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Intheno
and so the manufacturers and players are to blame?

Not the tournaments that have allowed it to be used, huh?

Hadn't you noticed that the tournaments and the manufacturers ARE THE SAME PEOPLE? You can't blame the tournaments and not the manufacturers, or vice versa. The reason teh tournaments let people get away with using cheater guns is they are the same people who make the cheater guns!

The fox is guarding the hen house.

 

[Chicago]

Originally posted by Intheno
so WDP are dishonest now, huh?.

The press release is dishonest in my opinion, yes.

BTW - What gun do you shoot? And more importantly, does it ramp? Try to answer without being 'dishonest'. Hopefully you are going to tell me you don't play, or you use an Automag, because if you were to tell me you use a gun made in the last 12 months I might fancy using that 'hypocracy' word you use so much myself...

I use either a Bushmaster, an Automag, or an Autococker. I pull the trigger and paint comes out, no reason to spend another $1000 for milling and bounce.

 

[Matski]

Originally posted by Chicago
What makes you think I don't like WDP? I don't like them any more or less than any of the other manufacturers that insist on selling cheater guns. I just don't like the press release. I think it's a copout from actually doing something to address the problem.

It takes the entire industry to address a problem such as this, one company alone cannot solve the problem.
If WDP said 'ok, were not going to do ramping software anymore'-the gap in supply will simply be filled by competitors who offer ramping.....;no change would be achieved for paintball, simply a weaker competitive position for the company. The only way for things to change is for customers to stop demand for ramping, in which case manufacturers wont supply it anymore.. which leads us back to the leagues and effective policing of rof.

 

[Chicago]

As I suggested in the other forum, WDP should both not sell ramping guns and force the change in NPPL to require certified boards.

I might even shell out for an Angel in appreciation.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Please do not use the thing we are selling to you as it is irresponsible to do so.
Sweet.

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Love the official line from WDP - especially after recalling hearing about the player that bought a brand new Angel at last years Campaign Cup, took it out of box, aired it up, took it to field, and got DQd from the tournament for having a gat that added shots...

At the end of the day, the problem stemmed from high level teams using funky uncapped software, sourced from either someone who is good with programming, or their factory sponsors.

This lead to people shooting downright naughty machine guns, which empty a hopper in a single figure number of seconds. Which lead to EVERYBODY wanting said advantage.

What is needed is a cap on RoF, whether or not ramping is allowed, it will be used - either via ramping software or naughty triggers.

I for one think that once the cap is in place, how people get there is of no concern, as long as two conditions are met - first three shots are not FA (al la NXL mode), or the trigger is not runaway bouncy - both of these scenarios are dangerous.

And can people stop calling ramping gats "cheat" gats? The technology moves on, so the rules adapt and evolve to match the tachnology. It happens in all sports and hobbies.

The ramping horse has bolted, no matter how many locks we put on the stable door its not really going to make a blind bit of difference.

 

[Furby]

Personally, I think the press release is more along the lines of a way to cover themselves from liability. Note that there's no reference whatsoever to any other leagues, just the Millenium. The PSP is mentioned, but only in reference to the mode of fire allowed there.

Based on the other statements I've seen here regarding the Millenium's gun rules vs. what's being told to players on the field, that can lead to some confusion on the part of the players and perhaps whoever is insuring Millenium? Apparently WDP is aware of this and in order to protect themselves, they're putting out a public press release in order to cover their backsides. Makes perfect sense to me.

And just an FYI Intheno, the CFOA doesn't allow ramping per their rules, but word on the street (I know, dubious source) is that there's some ramping going on by people using the PSP mode.

And in the interest of full disclosure, and to prevent any accusations of hypocrisy, dubious honor, or outright lying, I shoot an Angel G7, with an Evolved Fly as a back up and an Alias Intimidator as a secondary...and every one of them has the appropriate software for whatever league I happen to be playing in at the moment.

 

[Ben Frain]

I'm confused. Surely that press statement is fair enough. It really only pushes for the Millennium to be clear in their rules.

A vast oversimplification but isn't is just effectively saying...

Our ramping mode is designed for the PSP rules. We do not know for sure if our ramping mode complies with the Millennium rules as nobody seems to understand the Millennium rules.
Therefore, we recommend you do not use the PSP mode on your Angel at Millennium events until the Millennium clarifies its stance over ramping.

Despite a few dubious meanderings into the morailty of ramping it seems a perfectly fair line to take. Good for them. I think the Millennium should at least have the juice in its sack to put down in writing explicitly whether the PSP mode is acceptable at its tournaments or not.

 

[Chicago]

What we need is to take a Millenium guy, a PSP guy, and a NPPL guy, and lock 'em in a room, preferably a hot one with no air conditioning, until they agree to require certified boards.

Preferably semi-auto ones.