NPPL Welcome London Tigers

[Craigy]

I see

However, if the league says, "instead of 18, we'll take 20 because of the expansion of the pro bracket with teams that have, predominantly, done very well." and one of those expanded spots happens to be Bob Long... I could accept that. Likewise, if the Hurricanes fail to make the cut because of all the new teams, well, that's competition

My question is this, we will use BC, they have been around forever, do they deserve a spot? They did really well last year but for what ever issues they have, they arent doning their best this year. Should we increase the Pro bracket for them or Bob or anyone? (just playing devils advocate!) if they dont make it?

does anyone else hate paintball?? I have a headache from all this!! lol

 

[JtJ]

IMHO, we should not increase the number for any team that was accounted for when the original number (18) was decided upon. When they sat there and looked at the pro teams active in 2004, they said, "well, only 18'll go on. So the established pros, like BC, either hold off the hungry challengers, like Smoke, and force the new guys back down to pro, or they, the established pros, go down like the dinosaurs." The decision was made that BC or the Hurricanes leave the Pro division. At that time, however, there was no consideration for Bobby, NYX, Aftershock, Infamous........

I want to be clear that I am not whining about this. I am not asking that the number be increased. I am just saying that I could see it as legit for there to be a small increase because of the new teams.

As long as the division is made up of the elites. Let the near-elite play D1. Make the pro's the best of the best. Make being pro mean something.

 

[Craigy]

but..

(again devils advocate) But infamous has earned their keep, Bobby could still make it, The Ironmen will have a hard time, should they be allowed? NYX made the choice not to attend Denver, and Legacy what about them?

I see your point of wanting the elite, but you cant say all NXL teams deserve a spot, I mean if Bob is that elite then why didnt he make finals in Denver like Infamouswhat about Shock? (I am not picking on you Bobby)

Teams like mine and Redz and others held our own against these guys in Denver, should they get in on the back door when were working our a$$es off?

 

[JtJ]

aha

But who says they get in the back door? If the NPPL was to say, "Because of Bobby & Shock, we'll extend the number of teams to 20." It could well be you or I (right now, it'd be I) who gets in that back door. The league would be opening up spots in consideration of the increased talent pool.

So maybe the NPPL adds 2 spots for the 4 NXL teams now playing (NYX, Bobby, Shock, The Men). 50% of the added teams added to the total.

I am not saying I advocate this, just discussing the possibilities. Personally, I like the idea of just 18 teams. But, I reserve the right to change my mind at/after Vegas.

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Intheno
1--yeah Baca, thats really what the NPPL needs.

2--you really don't get the whole 'FA style' promotion and relegation thing do you comrade? I mean, what (exactly) is it that you are not happy with and how (exactly) would you choose to do it if the NPPL had the benefit of your wisdom and knowledge.

3--Or maybe you don't have an alternative viable plan? Maybe you are happier to write your conspiracy theories and wallow in your own pessimism? Please enlighten us all on how your Tournament Utopia would actually work....

4--I think Jeff has explained the position of a lot of teams out there, particularly the ones chasing a top 18 spot. You want it, you earn it!

5--On a side note. Did anyone hear whether the NPPL rules comitteee allowed Dye's padded jerseys or not. I heard they voted. I wonder if Dye's sponsorship of the NPPL 'convinced' them to change the ruling or not? Anyone want to guess?
A TRUE test of the NPPL's integrity coming up.

6--Start working on a swipe at them now CBL, you don't want to miss the rush if they do a U-turn and allow padding.

1--you may not like the way I frame the issue but it's one that may very well come to pass--and one you still haven't addressed in any meaningful way except your usual misdirection. Perhaps if you came out of the closet you could make an honest case for your position.
2--I understand it perfectly well. (I'm not a member of The Circle after all.)
3--actually I do. It's part 2 of a 2 part 'View from the Deadbox' I've recently finished. Look for it soon. I'm sure you're gonna enjoy it.
4--Excepting it's an arbitrary fiction. What did he have to do this year to "earn" an opportunity to play Pro? Pay the higher entry fee. Big deal. I (or the NPPL) could as easily say to Jeff and other teams in a similar position next year the league will be limiting Pro slots and teams without a pro "history" have this season to prove they deserve a spot.
I certainly don't begrudge any of the teams working at it, good for them, I was simply pointing out that with PP taking that course when they did created the prospect of other unexpected issues.
5--let me guess. in a past life you were a carny or a shill, right?
6--the whole issue of what constitutes "safety" in the game is in need of reform. Check out the gun cheats article in PGI 186--I mention it there briefly.
As to "working on a swipe" it's no work at all. It may take you an afternoon to "craft" your posts but I just write mine as I go along.

 

[JtJ]

Originally posted by Baca Loco


4--Excepting it's an arbitrary fiction. What did he have to do this year to "earn" an opportunity to play Pro? Pay the higher entry fee. Big deal. I (or the NPPL) could as easily say to Jeff and other teams in a similar position next year the league will be limiting Pro slots and teams without a pro "history" have this season to prove they deserve a spot.
I certainly don't begrudge any of the teams working at it, good for them, I was simply pointing out that with PP taking that course when they did created the prospect of other unexpected issues.

Arbitrary, absolutely. However, it is the right protocol: announce a change in the rules one year before it takes effect so any team so inclined can make adjustments. If they were wait until November and then announce, "next year, no one without pro experience can play pro", it would be a change that is applied retroactively. This way, teams had the option to move up and fight for a spot a full year in advance.


Baca, do you oppose, and if so why do you oppose, limiting the division? I don't like the current NPPL system (every Tom, Dick and Harry - including some might say my own team - can pay to call themselves pro, and put a D1 or even D2 quality team on the field) and I don't like the current NXL system (Rich & Connected = Pro. Not Rich and Connected = Feeder team for a Pro).


jeff

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by JtJ
Baca, do you oppose, and if so why do you oppose, limiting the division? I don't like the current NPPL system (every Tom, Dick and Harry - including some might say my own team - can pay to call themselves pro, and put a D1 or even D2 quality team on the field) and I don't like the current NXL system (Rich & Connected = Pro. Not Rich and Connected = Feeder team for a Pro).

jeff

Hi, Jeff. I don't envy you those long practice drives. Ouch!

Nope. I've no problem at all with a limited Pro division. In fact, something like what the NPPL seems to be trying to put into place was discussed in these forums a couple years ago.

What hasn't been discussed--at least publicly--is what happens to everyone else--or even exactly what the Pro division will be expected to do to compete next season. Why 18? And what becomes of Div 1 should it end up top heavy with some NXL teams and RL and perhaps a couple other top Euro "pros"? If the answer is that's where they have to play then why not say so? Are any divisions besides the Pro division going to be limited? If the Pro format changes how will that affect relegation and promotion across formats? Should Div 1 end up top heavy won't that make a mockery of the competition within the division and in the first year of a new system does the NPPL really want that sort of unintended consequence? Or will they simply deny them an opportunity to play period? How many teams will move up and down each season?
Lots of other questions come to mind. Do they all need to be answered now? Not really, but the sooner the better I imagine as far as the teams are concerned and haven't we be told repeatedly it's all about the teams?

Regarding your desire to at least have a shot, I don't blame you one bit. Do you really have any idea just what that shot will amount to if you get it?

 

[Intheno]

Comrade, it took me all morning to craft this, but here you go.

1. OK, firstly, 'Come out of the closet?', you calling me gay? Can you back that up big boy? Maybe you are refering to my secret identity? Why would peopleknowing who I am make a difference to what I am saying? I post my veiws, and drop the occasional hint at something, thats all.
secondly, I never intended to address this issue in a 'meaningful way', therefore my failure to do so is in fact redundant.
As for misdirection - you see misdirection everywhere, so I won't worry about it.

2. I don't think you do, but I don't have the time to educate you

3. Can't wait to read it. I presume it will put forward your own suggestions, rather than repeatedly knocking other peoples efforts and hard work. I am holding my breath (not really...

4. I don't know what you mean. I know you are having another little snidey jab, but I am not sure what at. They don't have to earn anything to play pro this year, the same as all the other leagues, however thier points this year have been earned through skillfull play and training, and this is what I meant. That work translates into a top 18 spot.

5. Stop talking bollox. I didn't have a past life and nor did you, unless......hold on.......you weren't Comrade Trotzky were you, or Chairman Mau?

6. Turns out they didn't allow the jerseys, which, to me at least, dispells your ideas in a previous post that when Dye signed on as a gold sponsor thier Jerseys would magically be allowed. Now I am not 100% that thats exactly what you said, but it sounds like you, so...
As for it being a safety issue. I disaggree that the padding in Dye's jersey is there for any reason other than copping the odd bounce, but that is my personal opinion. The rules comittee is independant and voted against it. The NPPL has a rules comittee for this reason. Things as important as this are decided democratically, not by a tin-pot dictatorship.

Got to go, can't sit here 'crafting' all day, lol

Heard the Vegas event is full at 162 teams. Surely all those teams can't be 'misdirected?'

 

[Baca Loco]

Originally posted by Intheno
1. OK, firstly, 'Come out of the closet?', you calling me gay? Can you back that up big boy? Maybe you are refering to my secret identity? Why would people knowing who I am make a difference to what I am saying? I post my veiws, and drop the occasional hint at something, thats all.

1A--secondly, I never intended to address this issue in a 'meaningful way', therefore my failure to do so is in fact redundant.
As for misdirection - you see misdirection everywhere, so I won't worry about it.

3. Can't wait to read it. I presume it will put forward your own suggestions, rather than repeatedly knocking other peoples efforts and hard work. I am holding my breath (not really...

4. I don't know what you mean.

6. Turns out they didn't allow the jerseys, which, to me at least, dispells your ideas in a previous post that when Dye signed on as a gold sponsor thier Jerseys would magically be allowed. Now I am not 100% that thats exactly what you said, but it sounds like you, so...

6A--As for it being a safety issue. I disaggree that the padding in Dye's jersey is there for any reason other than copping the odd bounce, but that is my personal opinion. The rules comittee is independant and voted against it. The NPPL has a rules comittee for this reason. Things as important as this are decided democratically, not by a tin-pot dictatorship.

7--Heard the Vegas event is full at 162 teams. Surely all those teams can't be 'misdirected?'

1--touched a nerve, huh? All I meant was if peeps knew who you were you would be free to say exactly what you know, but--
1A--that's my mistake. I've been foolishly treating your posts as vaguely serious. Since you're just screwing around I'll ignore them from now on.
3--funny I can't recall you objecting in the past when I have, on occasions too numerous to mention, criticized various efforts of both the Mil and the PSP so I guess you don't really object to the criticism per se--just the target. Poor little ITN, maybe Mommy can kiss it and make it all better.
4--par for the course
6--Hurray! Justice and integrity flow from the bosom of the NPPL. Are we having a parade to celebrate?
6A--So when's the next Rules Committee or any committee election? You might want to re-think that democratically bit in the mean time. I know it's hard to fathom but words actually mean things.
As to the safety issue I extrapolated from the padding of a Dye jersey my point was while the committee is busy safeguarding the NPPL's integrity larger safety concerns exist and are not, as of yet, being addressed--at least publicly. Just a comment, not a criticism so no need to get your panties in a bunch.
7--and we close on a classic example of your usual misdirection as you apply a term I used with regards to the manner in which you answer criticism to suggest that A) you somehow speak for the NPPL, and B) that a full tourney must invalidate any criticism.

 

[JtJ]

Originally posted by Baca Loco
Hi, Jeff. I don't envy you those long practice drives. Ouch!

This weekend was an anamoly, as we blew tires both going (causing a 5 hour delay from 11:30 pm to 4:20 am) and returning (1 hour delay, thank G-d).