Welcome To P8ntballer.com
The Home Of European Paintball
Sign Up & Join In

New Thinking

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
After reading a lot of these threads regarding who's best at this, or who's best at that; best team ooop north and best team darn sarf etc, what is clear is that we do have some class players lurking about and yet, as has been well documented, we have but 3 pro teams.

Now what seems obvious to me is that we as a nation have a certain degree of pride, it manifests itself in many other sports so we shouldn’t be surprised when it surfaces in Paintball.
I wonder how many of you guys have ever gone to watch an England football game at Wembley or wherever and felt that rush when you walk up to that stadium mob handed playing against Germany or whoever, that feeling is multiplied ten fold when you go abroad with the team.
Pride oozes out of ya, you just can’t help it.
And what the fcuk has this to do with Paintball ?
Well, imagine we could create British teams (even Jock ones) where we could be proud of them and have a real; chance of competing at the top of our sport, I would love to see us dominate again, I really would.

But I suspect something is working against us and I think we have a systemic problem that is going to be hard to overcome and it is one of parochialism.
We are just too ‘local’ in our thinking; teams seem to be set up with ‘convenience’ being a main determinant.

Teams generally start with a few friends playing together or even family and the genesis of that team tends to be the very reason it will always have a built in plateau of achievement that can’t be overcome.
Basically, because of the way the team was formed in it’s beginning, it is this very structure that will hold it back.
Successful teams, teams who get to the top as pros, have a policy of going after players who are the best.
If you have a team of pals or relations, then there is a certain amount of in-house reluctance to say ‘goodbye’ to friends or family members who do not make the grade, this is just natural consequence of the way we seem to do things over here.

We obviously now have to face up to the reasons of why we actually play this sport, if we are playing for fun, then cool, by all means continue playing with your pals and family but if you as a paintballer and a sportsman have true aspirations, then you need to think outside of the present English way of doing things.

We have some real talent in this country, real talent and we now have a resurgent regime of practice, leastwise I have seen it down here in the south with sites like D7’s and I suspect Markie C’s up north and others providing venues for practice and development of aspiring teams.

The infrastructure for a better Brit ball is now falling into place with these type sites but we are pretty much doomed to a long term program if we organize ourselves the way we are doing at present.

So, if we have the sites who are now catering for teams to improve and we know we have the players but……. well, that’s the problem you see, it’s the in-between bit, the existing team infrastructure that now becomes the problem.
The number of potentially top players is quite large I would think but they are generally dispersed amongst too many differing teams. Of course there will be a transition of these top players over a course of time where teams like Tigers and Shock will hoover up really good players but we need to create a few more Hoovers, in other words more teams who are aspirational and do not rely on ‘local’ or convenient considerations as important.

The model we have been adopting for the past God knows how long in Brit team development is redundant guys, we can’t rely on local teams with local players then going out to practice to get us back to the top.

We have to now rethink the way we go about things but I’m not so sure the identification of how we must change is gonna help us because it needs people who are focused and have money to align what we need with what we have a resource
If we want to get Brit ball back up there then we need to create teams ‘Nexus’ style.
We need certain people to get out there, and start putting teams together with a view of creating a side to push for the top.

John Payne and Triss Hewitt are doing this with the Copenhagen Ducks (Method), I did it with Nexus and Chris Pelling is doing it down in the South West.
It’s not enough guys, we need more Pellings, Paynes and Hewitts, we need guys who are proud to be British and focus themselves on team development.

I am going down this weekend to Exeter to pick the guys for Chris’s team from about 50 or 60 players and if the resultant team work hard, then there is no reason why they can’t push for the top.
Nexus was formed from just such a bunch of hopefuls, remember what that early Nexus did, my God you can hardly forget it with the amount of times I go on about it :)
There is NO reason why we can’t have another 5 Nexus type teams from England and I ain’t exaggerating here, we have the players but they ain’t playing in the right teams.

We need more entrepreneurs like Payne and Pelling to help this process.
If we truly have a desire to get Brit ball back on track then we need to adopt a different model of operation because the traditional model is just not working, and to be honest, cannot ever work in this modern, more professional paintball environment we find ourselves in.
Players need to think more about personal ambitions and aspirations, teams need to think more about goals and how best to achieve them and at present we are not really creating an appropriate infrastructure to allow our best players to flourish in the best teams.
If we are serious about getting Brit ball back up there then we need to be acting serious and not just paying lip service to this resurgence that seems to be erupting in the UK.
We can do it, I sincerely think we can, we just need to do things in the right way if we are to be successful.
Sensible thoughts anybody ?
 

Edwards

Active Member
Jul 12, 2001
605
15
43
SoManc
Visit site
pete ,


I think there are some great players out there , but as you have quite rightly put ,they are loyal for all the wrong reasons , friendships and they all started a team together just dont cut it if you wanna be a great player .

Unless people can get over this major factor , the only people get better is play with there piers or with better players,there is too many players in the country who like there own pond and they dont want to be a little fish again , its a big ass pond ota there , you can only get better by playing with better players .



Your friends will always be your freinds if you play on novice team or a pro.
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
588
0
0
www.uglyducklings.dk
Sensible thoughts - but for most players, the barrier is not convenience, but rather practical difficulties.

I strongly believe a team that can not practice together at least once per week is without a chance in CPL or Div. 1.

What Tris is doing with the Ducks might work, but only because the core of the team have been Pro for so many years, that they might still pull through.... but for any young players out there, if you cannot practice with your team regularly, you are in trouble.

So, at the end of the day, it is a question of money.

If your team has the funds to finance players travelling to practice over great distances, you can get the best players out there, no matter where they are.

If not, you either have to rely on local talent, or rely on less practice.....

I picked my new squad not only from talent, but also vicinity... because the absolute bare minimum for them to practice with the team, is once per week - any less, and you get cut.

Had my team been better funded, I could have widened the scope... but that was not the case... so I went with strongly dedicated local players (South Sweden and Copenhagen area) with the will to practice hard and get good - even if they were less experienced than many others.

Dedication is all you really need - everything else can be learned, talent notwithstanding.

Marseille will show if I was right ;)

Nick
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Chris, spot on mate, and I am pretty sure if you could get together with 7 or so other like minded individuals, then we would have another great team to represent us but I think what Nick has just said is a big factor also, money.
I don't think it is a 'be all and end all' problem as Nick suggests but he is right in that it can really fcuk things up in a lot of circumstances.
But this is one of the reasons why I identified us needing a few entrepreneurs like Payne, Hewitt and Pelling etc who are willing to put time and money into ventures like this.

Players, who have talent and real dedication can and do overcome some financial hardships and good financing will always catalyze this process.

It is not impossible to create top teams without funding but it is harder, a lot harder if you haven't got any.

But let's not 'chicken and egg' this thing because we can create top teams and top performances that will attract finance further down the developmental line that can shore up the financial side of any team who are seen to be successful and dedicated.

The industry are always on the look out for any such team because it is these exact type teams who make it to the top, so if you organise yourselves first along the lines I have suggested, start work, dedicate yourselves to training and not just playing, get some results under your belt and then go knocking on Piper's door for some sponsorship.
Results speak for themselves; aspirations and degree of commitment will have to be explained to any prospective sponsor but if you do the right things on the field and make the right noises off it, then sponsorship will come, that's for, certain
 

Nick Brockdorff

New Member
Jul 9, 2001
588
0
0
www.uglyducklings.dk
Ahhh.... but I wasn't suggesting it can't be done - merely that instead of starting with "semi-experienced" players - who already play on a team with some notoriety.... when you have no money, you instead find local players with a high degree of dedication and talent.

It means harder practice and more work - before you reach your goals - but eventually it will benefit you, because you end up with a stong and LOCAl roster, that can continue bettering itself trhough many weekday practices.

;)

Nick
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
I think that the lower down you go through the leagues the more money becomes an issue. And I dont know how the series/tournaments work in Europe/USA etc but it is very hard for a new team in the UK to actually earn any money back for the time/money they spend working at it.

Look at the PA and the fact that they announced that there was no prize money at all for last season. Now the team's have to fund the entire season, entry fee's, transport, paint for the games, paint for training etc etc and after all that, even if they win, they walk away with nothing.

It doesn't put many people off, 'ballers want to get out there and play, no matter what. But does it not put some kind of restriction on how far a team can go? Sure, some team's pick up sponsors who will help them through, provide paint etc but these kind of deals are few and far between. Most 'sponsorship' deals are just discounts when buying kit from a certain store.

So at the moment, the prize for winning a lot of the UK events is just being able to say that you won. That is enough for a lot of people to want to push hard enough to get to that level, but what about beyond it?
 

TheRenton

P8nt'in Yo Face Since 03
Groups like Manc Union have a massive roster of excellent players, any what we need is more pools of this size to pop up around the country, then from these pools select teams to represent us internationally.
I find that the cost of training was a problem until reball and the likes of Fireball Gym were invented, now the only cost is travelling to and from games. But when we talk internationally, surely we need the team sponsors to help pay for the travel involved as most "up and coming" players havn't got 2p to rub together other than say a £30-£40 tourney fee.
 

Gyroscope

Pastor of Muppets
Aug 11, 2002
1,838
0
0
Colorado
www.4q.cc
Something in one of those other threads comes to mind. The thread was about teams that almost made it, and one thing that caught my eye was that one of the teams that almost made it was described as having failed as pros because of a lack of sponsorship.

When you talk about making it to the top, Robbo, you must be talking about success in either the NXL or NPPL pro division, right? That is a tall order without some serious backing, aside from and beyond the backing requisite to train with regularity.

In the past, it has been pointed out that sponsorship funds are drying up, that companies are looking for a flagship team for this or that market, etc. It occurs to me that the sponsorship availble in the UK is less than what one might find over here, and that moreover, getting out to big events and meeting the people you need to meet to start connecting dots is harder there than here. Maybe I am wrong about the relative commitment and expense of getting out to Mill events vs NPPLs or PSP events, but it seems to me that finding team leaders with the savvy to put together a sufficient sponsor package to underwrite a real pr team is the thing that is lacking.

Of course, it is a long way from there to here, so I don't have the clearest view of what is happening in UK paintball. That is just the impression I get.
 

Dominus-UK

I'm a noob at IRL..
Nov 24, 2003
104
0
0
West Sussex
Visit site
Perhaps players need to be more 'selfish', well self focussed on their own path as a paintballer? Perhaps they need to understand (and act on) that they will only go as far as their team can collectively go, and if that's not as far as they are able, then they need to sort it out. But isn't this something the paintball 'media' can help with? I'm pretty sure other media is capable of making people self centered with the lust to become their idols, whom are dieties to them. :p (I take it that is what your saying, then these are only my guesses, as I have no experience in the field.. )

This interests me though, as it seems the only way of starting off tournament play is to either join a team or make one, and to join a team you need experience (I know this is not really true, but ). So I am left with the option of starting a team, and the only players I can get are my friends (which itself is not definite, more so doubtfull, due to costs among other things). And then of course they aren't all going to have the 'aspirations' (I should say 'dreams' - they have about as much chance of manifesting themselves as a dream is to turn out true.) as I have.

But generally I've found the attitude of the British is to go for secure, definate professions in life; to become a doctor, a footballer, an engineer, a lawyer (I've put in sporting professions as it seems the most fitting to compare, even if they are less common)- All of which are proven, provided, secure and often most importantly, accepted. Which brings you back to the point that paintball is not generally known (as a sport) nor accepted (and by accepted I mean the idea of a paintballer is not exotic or weird) by the public, by society (society is more affected by paintballs relation to 'guns') and as a sport. Give a man a choice between the path as a professional paintballer or a footballer (assuming he has equal skill in both) and what is he more likely to choose?

Anyway, this is what I can gather from reading these forums, general knowledge, and thinking for a minute on the subject. As I said I have no direct knowledge nor experience when it comes to how to become a professional player or team, but I do have my own experience as a player who wants to enter tournament play.

So, chances are I'm speaking crap, but please do correct me if I am! :D