My suggestions for gun control...

[Duncster]

Manike, I wasn't originally referring to the number of bytes being returned, but rather the overall byte-for-byte image (or even a unique cheksum would do). I agreed with your points on the number of bytes and being able to hide code within a load of dummy code somewhere as being a workaround to a byte-count, but a uniqe "image" could not be fooled. I just don't think this avenue has been sufficiently exhausted - it kinda just fizzled away in the other thread... Maybe AScutt would care to step up and clarify this?

I believe that if this could be implemented, then cheating would become practically impossible. It would remove the requirement of any human involvement other than someone spot checking markers going onto a field, and the remaining judges just keeping an eye out for markers which appear a little dodgy.

If this option is totally impossible/impractical, then your suggestion stands as the most easily enforceable solution. Although I still wouldn't like to see paintballers doing time or getting hefty fines due to markers which the authorities have managed to "unlock"....

Dunc.

 

[Flash-Bugout]

Originally posted by RoryM
If a munufacturer creates cheat units under the guise of the sealed units - manufacturers markers are barred for the reamaining season.

My 2p on this one - what if Paintball Company A made cheater boards for Paintball Company Bs markers, and made them to look exactly like Company Bs boards. Nobody will believe that Company B didn't make them, who honestly is going to admit to making a cheater board when the penalty is so harsh.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by manike
...Not saying who it was but I saw you personally checking guns I know to be illegal. You couldn't catch it, and by the time it's on a robot it will be too late to catch it. By the time you took the gun to test it, it was too late....

I knew I was just going through the motions in many cases and that we couldn't replicate what we had just seen a few seconds before. What surprised me was how many guns I personally caught adding shots and, believe me, there was no question. I could feel the "help" when it kicked in.

Around the second day of X Ball we figured out that if we kept certain guns going by firing shots every few seconds we could replicate the sinning mode. We then were able to fire a string and get them kicked off.

Nevertheless we MUST get a better program going such as (perhaps) what you've suggested here. This season's way of dealing with it obviously falls way short.

The program suggested here seems to satisfy the requirements for safety and fairness but may have some legal problems in certain places in the world.

 

[RoryM]

This whole thing boils down to manufacurer/league co-operation. We do need to see that the manufacturers are bhaving morally with their tournament equipment, in England it opens up a minefield of legal issues, that if they really wanted, they would take marker(s) away for stringent testing, and could quite easily work out what some of them are capale of. Those that have been around will remember what happened the last time the Home office got their hands on a marker, lethal shots with modified syringes???, and that was when we were only using pumps!

But, there is a need for some level of self regulation, because if the goverment decide to make the rules up for us, they will be quite draconian. If we take the initiative and do it for ourselves, the less chance of the Nanny state coming down hard on this. I am sure Bully and Hotpoint are only too aware of how much the home office monitor what we are using/importing etc, and are therefore aware of what is going on.

It's our choice, use cheat boards or not. I think in the end we may all lose.

 

[Wadidiz]

Originally posted by RoryM
It's our choice, use cheat boards or not. I think in the end we may all lose.

Good post. I totally agree.

But as long as there is selfish greed to get ahead in profit or on the podium there will be cheating guns. Where there is a way there is a will. Therefore we have to simplify our marker requirements and enforce the rules with proper test equipment.

 

[peegee]

Hey manike you were saying that imposing a 15bps cap would have people only shooting avrage of around 12 this is true if you turn the rate of fire down so it scans the trigger less, but if you can have gun ramp up when it hits a certain bps then why cant you still have a uncapped board that ramps down if you go over 15 ? this way no matter what rate you hit you will only ever shoot 15bps?


peegee

 

[manike]

Originally posted by peegee
Hey manike you were saying that imposing a 15bps cap would have people only shooting avrage of around 12 this is true if you turn the rate of fire down so it scans the trigger less, but if you can have gun ramp up when it hits a certain bps then why cant you still have a uncapped board that ramps down if you go over 15 ? this way no matter what rate you hit you will only ever shoot 15bps?


peegee

You can. But I'm not sure if that fits within 'true semi auto'. In effect you are stacking shots and slowing down when they are fired, and depending on how you do that you may end up with shots after you finish firing...

At first glance with a 15bps limit between shots and a stack of only 1, I think you could end up missing shots.

I'd have to think a bit more carefully about the timings and the code, but I think it would need to be able to stack more than one shot at a time for it to work correctly.

It's certainly possible but it may need some fancy footwork in the code.

 

[John C]

If the trigger detection is completely separate to the firing of the gun (as it is in all properly designed interrupt driven boards) then there would be no dropped shots until your average got very close to 15bps.

 

[ascutt]

Simon

I have an idea for you but don't want to post it on here, can you email me please: Andy Scutt

 

[RoryM]

Talk to the manufacturers, get them to create sealed non-programmable boards? Is this possible Simon?

Or we regress and go back to pure mechanical semis, no electro's because we cant be trusted to operate legally, let alone fairly.

I think the individual bans for using dedicated cheater boards should be very high, 12 month ban or the like from all series, PSP or NPPL/Millennium etc..

Show cheaters we mean business and for once, they might take heed.