Moderators,,,Gods or Hitlerites!!!

[manike]

Hey Sparklie

www.dictionary.com I find it invaluable and easier to get to than the shelf next to my desk! I hear you and agree. And I want more cookies!

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
Feedback is cool, but we do tend to end up repeating ourselves because people tend to pick tha same fight every three months or so...

TJ read your own words matey!

Obviously you are not reacting to the feed back very well if the same fight keeps coming back up? Doesn't that imply that you are not finding the correct solution yet? Maybe your master plan will solve it, but from your own words it obviously hasn't yet.

Nick's tone, to me, was one of concern for paintball, his events and his customers. Rightly in my opinion.

I have no problem with losing stragglers, but that's not who are unhappy here. The unhappy people here are the active people in the sport (well the UK anyway) and they are not stragglers or people you should want or accept losing.

People like Nick and Sparklie are the people YOU should be encouraging and helping as they bring other people here looking for their information and events. Even, in my opinion, to overlooking some 'mild' infractions of your rules . It's ok when you and the mods don't follow the rules occasionnaly. Practice what you preach.

I'm intrigued as to the master plan and how it can justify the current situation. Like all plans kept in the dark it's just vapourware until it becomes reality.

Again your definitions above are not adequate in my opinion (yeah I know I have many ), people did feel they were discussing tourny in tourny (that's why they put the posts there in the first place). You guys just weren't happy with how they were doing it. Often a post could fit several sections, I say just relax and allow the intent of the person posting it to flow if it has a reasonable acceptance level to the forum it was in.

I take it you have run boards etc. before? What is happening here is similar to many forums (paintball and non) that I have frequented on the net in the early stages until they get levelled out and reach a happy medium. Usually that happy level comes when it stops being too anally retentive and becomes a more relaxed easy going place. (i.e. after the mods realise they don't have to use their power just because they have it, but that it's actually better to use their power for the good of their customers and to keep things ticking along smoothly.)

If something is in a vaguely acceptable location, and isn't annoying anyone, why move or moderate it? and the answer of 'because it's there' doesn't work in my eyes. It's not mount Everest

manike (who has moderated many forums and chatrooms in his net time).

 

[manike]

Originally posted by Liz
I still think that notification of a tournament (dates, details etc) SHOULD be in Tournament - it seems crazy that it has to be put anywhere else. If someone new comes to the furums & wants to know what tourneys are coming up I'm pretty sure that's the first place they'll look, I know I would.

Agreed 100%.

"It won't take long to learn and work it out though will it Liz? "

Not for the regulars maybe, but the new people who you want to encourage will not know to look for announcements and probably won't even read the descriptions. They will just look at the titles, see Tournament and then read or make their posts just like they would in all other paintball forums of this nature.

I expect they will be dissapointed if they don't find the info they want and/or frustrated if their posts get moved to 'announcements'. It will keep happening with the current layout and it will be the new people that get annoyed (they will be the ones causing the infractions). You will then lose people and people won't think you are providing as good a service as you are.

In my opinion your arrangement makes so little sense in so many ways for the present posters and the future ones, as well as your board and web page itself. I'm trying to see a 'higher agenda' but as yet I can't. Care to share?

manike

wow Sparklie in serious mode

 

[TJ Lambini]

No Manike, it's because people have a tendency not to listen. I and the others have said the same thing and maintained a consistent line, yet we have the same headclashes with the same people because they either don't listen, or don't agree.

As for Nick, well, that's your opinion, maybe you know the guy. However, I trust you grant the powers that be at PGI and their parent company a modicum of intelligence, so when I get woken up by phonecalls from the UK saying 'Who the **** does this guy think he is' I tend to listen to em. And on reading it myself my reaction was 'Who the **** does this guy think he is.'

We allow site owners and game operators to advertise themselves freely here and have done since gthe start - do you not think that on offering them this free service, we should be granted a little respect and courtesy by the likes of Nick?

Nick's motive may have been fine, the way he chose to express himself was not. Period. Read it back dude, cos EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've spoken to who read it thought it was waaaaay outta line. As I say, maybe you know the guy...

And we overlook infractions ALL THE TIME man - that's why I get angry. Problem yesterday was the bulk of threads in here and tournament were backslappy 'thankyou' threads that were not discussions and involved the same handful of people. We always let the odd thing slide, but when people take the piss we step in. What happened yesterday is EXACTLY what has happened before.

Can you not just accept the simple, oft-repeated statement that this is our site, please show us tha courtesy of allowing us to run it how WE choose.

You've done stuff like this before - well done, I'm pleased for you, but allow US to do OUR thing in the here and now please.

 

[Buddha 3]

Hey Sparklie

Originally posted by manike
www.dictionary.com I find it invaluable and easier to get to than the shelf next to my desk! I hear you and agree. And I want more cookies!



TJ read your own words matey!

Obviously you are not reacting to the feed back very well if the same fight keeps coming back up? Doesn't that imply that you are not finding the correct solution yet? Maybe your master plan will solve it, but from your own words it obviously hasn't yet.

Nick's tone, to me, was one of concern for paintball, his events and his customers. Rightly in my opinion.

I have no problem with losing stragglers, but that's not who are unhappy here. The unhappy people here are the active people in the sport (well the UK anyway) and they are not stragglers or people you should want or accept losing.

People like Nick and Sparklie are the people YOU should be encouraging and helping as they bring other people here looking for their information and events. Even, in my opinion, to overlooking some 'mild' infractions of your rules . It's ok when you and the mods don't follow the rules occasionnaly. Practice what you preach.

I'm intrigued as to the master plan and how it can justify the current situation. Like all plans kept in the dark it's just vapourware until it becomes reality.

Again your definitions above are not adequate in my opinion (yeah I know I have many ), people did feel they were discussing tourny in tourny (that's why they put the posts there in the first place). You guys just weren't happy with how they were doing it. Often a post could fit several sections, I say just relax and allow the intent of the person posting it to flow if it has a reasonable acceptance level to the forum it was in.

I take it you have run boards etc. before? What is happening here is similar to many forums (paintball and non) that I have frequented on the net in the early stages until they get levelled out and reach a happy medium. Usually that happy level comes when it stops being too anally retentive and becomes a more relaxed easy going place. (i.e. after the mods realise they don't have to use their power just because they have it, but that it's actually better to use their power for the good of their customers and to keep things ticking along smoothly.)

If something is in a vaguely acceptable location, and isn't annoying anyone, why move or moderate it? and the answer of 'because it's there' doesn't work in my eyes. It's not mount Everest

manike (who has moderated many forums and chatrooms in his net time).

Whoah! Oomph! Ouch!
I think this a bit over the top.
First off, please understand that most people that the moderators have these three monthly arguments with are the same bunch of people over and over again. Although I'm glad to say that some people have wisened up, and are now (mosty) posting constructive posts that add to the level of information to be found on this forum.
I think you are taking this waaaaaaaaaaaay too serious. It's not as bad as you make it sound (actually, it's quite good!). Also you point out that we are more or less 'scaring off' some of the movers and the shakers in the world of paintball. I don't agree with that at all! Ask Robbo for his opinion. I bet he will agree with TJ and Baca, not because he's a moderator, but because he feels that way. Who else do we have on here? Niall? Magued? Those seem to be some serious movers and shakers. As a matter of fact, I have had some e-mail traffic with other movers and shakers (God, I like that term! And no, I'm not willing to divulge their names), and I asked them why they don't post more than they do, and their answer was because of some of the mindless blurb being said on the boards. Also, this forum is actually one of the most relaxed there is out there. The moderation isn't as harsh as on some others, yet we manage to keep it reasonably crap free. Plus it's fun! And don't even try to deny it, otherwise all of you wouldn't be so opinionated about this board! Seriously, this board is very loosely moderated compared to some other boards I visit, although I'll be the first to admit that some of the boards I frequent need to be very strictly controlled, or they'll turn into a spawning ground of all sorts of unpleasantness (And no, I will not tell you what boards those are!)
Face it guys, this board is healthy, more and more people sign on every day, and we keep getting better and better discussions going on in here, about truly interesting topics. So forgive us, and particularly the guys that pay for all this, when we ask you to cut back on (some) of the blubber that's posted on here, or at least do it according to the 'rules'.

 

[Collier]

About letting site owners advertise in here is a very valid point, not a lot of forums allow that kinda thing!

Paul.

 

[Buddha 3]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini


Nick's motive may have been fine, the way he chose to express himself was not. Period. Read it back dude, cos EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've spoken to who read it thought it was waaaaay outta line.

Agreed, 101%.

PS Stop posting when I'm typing! It makes me lose track of things.

 

[Liz]

"It won't take long to learn and work it out though will it Liz? "

Hm, that came over a bit patronising to me. I never said that I would have a problem, just that persons NEW TO THE FORUMS would find it confusing - one of the reasons I kept on reading the P8ntballer forums & ended up posting was because they are logical & easy to use, sadly now I'm an addict like many others

So the big guys behind the scenes have a master plan? One of the aspects of my job is managing business change, and rule no. 1 is always involve your users/customers, i.e. the people you are impacting. Now I know it would be ridiculous to suggest you should ask every poster on these forums for their views, but how about getting together a User Group that you put your ideas to, and get their comments & feedback? You get better buy-in from your "customers" and you never know, some of us might just come up with some good ideas. Honestly, this IS the way it's done at least in the IT world and it does work.

 

[manike]

Hey Buddha,

Sorry if you thought it was over the top. It's how I feel and how I know many others feel.

It is healthy here, but I think it could be so much better. Believe it or not I'm posting to try and help improve things here and get others to post and join us.

You would be amazed at the number of people who contacted me and spoke to me after the long rant thread between Robbo and I. You'd be amazed at how many are in the industry and involved at high levels in our sport. Sure ask Robbo for his opinion. In some cases those people will not post here for the very reason that he is so voicefull in his opinion and his methods of debate are usually just insulting to others. (they can't be arsed with the conflict).

The general concensus was why do I bother, they don't post because here they can't be arsed with the ego's and dictatorship attitude here, which if you read TJ's comment is his only real answer to people's valid points. 'It's our ball and you will play our way with it our way or not at all'. Strange but when I talk to them the 'mindless blurb' they are concerned about is from the mods not the general 'plebs' (that is not intended as an attack on all mods).

I know a lot of people who used to post but no longer do because of said reasons, or who post a significantly reduced amount because of it. I had a huge number of people tell me they don't bother with this board and will not because of those attitudes. That attitude is putting people off and it is not good for paintball in general. That attitude appeared to get worse just recently which is why I am saying my bit. Not to put people down but to try and get the people we are losing back.

Obviously by the very nature you will not recognise the loss of such people because they will no longer tell you or will just not bother to start posting.

Almost all boards I frequent (and that's a lot) allow traders and tournament organisers to post freely. Which ones do not Paul? (and I know you from many other boards we both frequent also )

Best Regards

manike

 

[SPARKLIE CHICK]

guys

whoo here lets stop spitting dummy for a while and simmer down sadly this can't be sorted over a few beers or one one one obviously far better way for ballers especially the frount guys look whos contributing here lol

I tottaly apprciate the free advertising and try to do my bit by helping out with sharing any knowlegde I have. This will always be an on going debate and the same problems will always re surface purely because the forum is a growing and transient comuntiy those of us that have been around for a while have already noticed and pointed this out.

The one thing in my wisdom I would like to point out is that your serves will only take so much and I for one would rather that it was intresting relivant / whitty stuff. When the boards fill up with trash they break down and then we all suffer.

I for one would rather what we have which I do so love than no boards

ta TJ and see you in the middle some time or far safer the bar lol

sparklie

 

[Buddha 3]

Liz, you make a good point in that last paragraph. But in defense of the PGI crew I would like to say that they have a group of 'customers' that they can, and do, turn to when they want to know stuff: The moderators. The people that were given the job when the forum had been up for a while did not get the title because they are a bunch of yes-men. They are all people with opinions who are not afraid to speak them. I have received a good number of e-mails asking me my opinion on certain things that were going on, or how I felt about certain changes, and I always gave my opinion, whether I agreed with them or not.
Does that (more or less) fit the description of wht you had in mind?